C4 25s - the right choice?

[Ross M]

Having used the same pair of Cressi Gara 2000 HFs since 2003 I decided it was time to upgrade. I also have a hard waterway monofin of a similar age, which I bought second hand. It hurts my feet after only 20 minutes so I rarely use it.

The Cressis have been great, I’ve used them for freediving and spearfishing, dynamic and constant weight. For all-round, low cost, everyday, starter fins they are absolutely fine. Cressi footpockets are comfortable enough to wear sockless and fit the narrow footed, which I am, well. They are tough enough to carry without a bag and being one of the cheapest freediving fins makes them a bargain. I’ll continue using them for spearfishing off Portland Bill and other rocky areas.

I wanted a fin that would provide comfort for being in the water for up to 3 hours as well as enhance performance.

After much research on these threads I finally purchased Spetton C4 25 Falcons with OMER Millennium footpockets. I also bought OMER 3 mm socks (I selected these on a hunch they'd be a better fit for the footpocket).

I’m very grateful for the great advice I found on these threads so thought I’d report back my findings.

In the pool for dynamic practice I realised immediately that I couldn’t use the fins without socks: the footpocket is too wide for my feet. With socks on though they fit perfectly.

Expecting to go miles beyond my PB with a carbon fibre boost, I actually found it harder to do the distances I was doing regularly with my Cressis, so was initially disappointed. I suspected this might have something to do with my finning action and also thought the soft fins would be better for constant weight.

I took my C4s to the Red Sea (Sharm) in the first week of October - I’d used my Cressis when there in April. My buddies and I like to do two 2-hour plus sessions a day (with a lunch break between) here involving repetitive dives along the reef in the 12-28 m range. When diving Ras Mohammed from shore there’s a lot of paddling involved also. We also dived from a scuba diving boat at Tiran a couple of times. We all use an Elios 5 mm non-smoothskin with 5 kg of weight.

In Sharm I got the C4 WOW factor! After some initial dives getting used to the fins, I had absolutely no desire to grab my Cressis, which I enjoyed using here in April. Most importantly the C4s felt so comfortable - as if I wasn’t wearing fins - but I was getting down to below 25 m and back far more effortlessly than I did using the Cressis. Found myself ascending using a very relaxed dolphin kick – feels like the soft fins allow momentum to be generated just by flicking your ankles. The Cressis seemed to require a lot more leg work on ascent. I was worried about the 25s being too soft but think I’d have found C4 30s too hard for what I like to do – I’m not a deep diver but enjoy multiple dives so think I’ve got the right fins and for that reason I think they are worth the high cost.

One thing with carbon fibre fins I hadn’t anticipated – on our first morning diving Ras Um Sid in Sharm, an Oceanic Whitetip seemed to be attracted to them. I wondered if this was because the carbon fibre glints on the surface.

I would also highly recommend the Cressi Gara 3000 LD – a low cost fin that both my dive buddies really like. One previously used Gara 2000 HFs the other Gara 3000 HFs. They both found the 3000 LD significantly better. The latter prefers them to his C4 Falcon 30s, which he finds a bit hard, though he generally uses a Special Fins Carbon monofin now.

I’m not sure how many metres any fin would add to a diver’s capability. Test Pilots say that if an aeroplane looks right it will fly right. I’d say if a fin feels right it will work for you even if it’s simply down to making you feel more relaxed.

You can see the C4s and Cressi Gara 3000HFs in action on YouTube at:
[ame=http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QYBwA2vZ-IU]YouTube - Freedive Fun New Fins.wmv[/ame]

and
[ame=http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QYBwA2vZ-IU]YouTube - Freedive Fun New Fins.wmv[/ame]

Hope this helps

Ross.

 

[azapa]

I have the same fin. You did not say how heavy and tall you are, as I think the fins flex has to be based on the power of the user, not how deep you plan to go.

I still think it's almost embarrassing that C4 relate target depth usage to fin stiffness, or is that just me? So, if i buy a pair of 40's I can suddenly dive 40M?

The fin must curve fully and push you forward (or up, or down) and not displace water at 45 degrees to your direction of travel. How much punch and bend you get depends of how much power your legs have, and your resistance in the water. I would hate to be a 300Lb scubie with a ton of gear and C4 25's. I'm sure I wouldn't move. I weigh 70Kgs (about 152lbs) and am skinny at 1.80cm. They seem to work nice for me, and hey, I even managed to get bellow 25M in them

Regarding sharks: agree, they do sparkle a lot, and those big red stickers are saying "i'm bleeding here, come and get me". The C4's of some buddies are completly matte through use/scratches though, mine are on the way.

One thing that REALLY peeed me off about mine, with no decent answer from anyone, was the twisting they came with. Beware and check before you accept. I already had mine here in Chile before I realized.

 

[Ross M]

I'm exactly the same weight, height and build as you (if my metric conversion is correct).

Good point about the weight the fins need to power. I too found the C4 information a little confusing. Assumed the 25 to be a general 'effectiveness' rating though think they also said there are many factors that influence fin choice.

This I think is why it's hard to decide on the optimum fin without trying them but as it's hard to try a wide range of fins I was grateful for the experience / info from the good people on this forum. When I get to do some diving on the line (when the water warms up here) hopefully I will see how they behave below 30 m. I need to work on my finning style with these fins also!

That twist in your fins is a bit bad - wouldn't have expected that given the footage of the tests I'd seen. Would the vendor not replace them? Mine came well packed (from the Deeper Blue Store) so fortunately didn't have that problem - looking forward to getting that matt effect though!

 

[azapa]

That twist in your fins is a bit bad - wouldn't have expected that given the footage of the tests I'd seen. Would the vendor not replace them? Mine came well packed (from the Deeper Blue Store) so fortunately didn't have that problem - looking forward to getting that matt effect though!

Scubastore did offer to change them, but the 2 month wait, and the shipping to and from Chile would cost me more than the fins, and I could not expect them to pay for that. I was more disappointed in C4 themselves who instead of saying "yes, they look twisted, sorry, we'll help you solve the problem" just said "see your dealer".

Not what I had expected from 300 euro blades. Where is the factory quality control? Sorry about the rant, I feel better now...

 

[cdavis]

Hi Ross,

Glad you liked the 25s. They are really sweet.

Like you, I used the 2000s for a long time before upgrading, experimenting with a bunch of different fins, including C4 vtr 25s. They have one weakness you need to watch out for. The softness of the blades means minimal acceleration and its is possible to overpower them so much that you can kick like heck and get nothing out of them. Nothing wrong with the fin, its the kicking. I absolutely loved them above 20 meters, but on 30+ meter dives the lack of immediate response got to me. If this happens to you, a change of kick style will take care of it.

Azapa, believe it or not, a very soft longfin works fine for a scuba spearo carrying a ton of gear (personal experience). Acceleration is zilch, but efficiency, once you get moving, is fabulous.

Connor

 

[Ross M]

Thanks for those tips Connor. Have to admit the response from soft fins at 30+ m was the thing I was wary about. Have read a couple of similar comments that it is more a question of feel and style, so will work on those principles.

Ross.

 

[azapa]

I have been consciously trying not to kick too "fast", like you would kick a football for example. I would always do this kind of kick in my plastic fins, and it is very tiring. I can always remember in a spearing comp arriving at about 15m to hunt, and hearing my heart pounding. Not good. Now I *try* to start of the kick softly and progressively increase the power. I have to self check myself all the time as I revert easily to the "football kick". It does seem to work well. I have tried them to 30M, that felt fine, but to be honest at my level anything past 30M is a challenge, especially with bifins. The deepest I went with the Cressi 3000lds was about 37M, a unpleasant dive, on the way up anyway..

 

[hteas]

Azapa,
For me, part of the secret of a good kick is that there are actually 3 parts to it.
When I need to start up from the bottom I use a push kick. As I speed up I change to more of a flutter kick (from the knees), and finally to a straight leg kick (from the hips) as I get really moving.

The push kick starts out like a flutter kick, You bend your knees and kick down to bend the blade. As soon as the blade is well bent, push directly backward against the blade(and moving yourself directly forward). It is also the way to swim most efficiently on the surface. On the surface you want to move forward, not put effort into lifting your butt up into the air, so push back against the water instead of down in the wrong direction

You can think of it as vectors. You want to move forward by pushing backward against the water. A normal kick pushes down at close to 90 degrees from the direction you want to go. This works fine at higher speed when the functional power vector is more to the rear, and has the benefit of causing less drag by not having your knees sticking ourt slowing you down. But it doesn't get you started, especially down deep when you want to go find some air.
Hope this helps.
Howard