C4 Carbon Falcon

[amihov]

Hi to everybody. I am getting new fins but I am wondering if anybody have comments about the difference between Falcon 30 or Falcon 40. I have swum with my Beauchat Competion ( very long plastic blade not very soft ) for 3 years.
I have used monofin to. I have strong legs in general, the problem I am having now whit my old fins that I am getting scared to dive whit them deeper than 15 m. I always dive alone never whit a partner I know that is not a good practice but any way that is my decision. Whit my plastic fins I can swim for more than 2 hours in cold water and I want to be able to do the same whit the carbon. One reason I gave up on monofin, even I know it is much faster and safer for deep dives I don't like the way it keeps my legs always together and I can't really rest on the surface whit it plus it is much harder to do any spearfishing whit it.
Thank you.
Alex

 

[demasoni]

Hi Alex,

The Beuchat Comps were my first long-bladed fins. They softened up after a about a year and propelled me easier and easier over time compared to my composite fiberglass (Matrix #3) fins I use now that are just as stiff as the first day I used them.

The Beuchats have taken me past 30m, so I'm not sure I understand when your hesitant to go below 15m. Are you worried about the fin, or because your alone? Personally, I think kicking technique outweighs fin stiffness in a fin's ability to bring you down or up.

I've never used C4's, but look in the Search function and you'll find lots of old threads devoted to the Falcons.

 

[amihov]

I think that it can be a combination of booth. But comparing to the monofin beachat are much slower. I want to get something that I can really on in any condition. Plus because they don't have an angle they are so much slower on the surface.

 

[trux]

I used Beuchat Competition fins for 3 or 4 years and agree with Demasoni that they felt softer with the time. Personally, I though it was rather me who got used to them, and not really the blades, but he may be right. However, this summer I broke a blade during the very first dive of my 2 weeks holidays, and did not manage to find a replacement blade on the spot, so I bought new H. Dessault fins which are not bad, but unfortunately, after some hesitating between two sizes, I took the bigger ones, which then turned out to be too loose. So, when I came back I bought C4 Flaps 30 blades. For the testing I mounted them into the loose Dessault foot pockets - just because it was very easy and quick. As for the stiffness, the 30's felt approximately about the same as my old Beuchats. I used them only once till now, quite shortly and in shallow water (6-8m), so cannot really compare them better. Last week I finally mounted the C4 Flaps into my Beuchat foot pockets (which I like a lot) - it was quite a bit of hassle, but the result is OK. I hoped to test them yesterday or today, but there were big waves and zero visibility, so I did not dive. Maybe tomorrow.

Otherwise, I agree again with Demasoni that the Beuchats were quite fine at the depth too, but I rarely went with them below 20m. Though, when I saw how easily the plastic fin breaks (without any warning), I agree that you need to be careful when going deep with plastic fins - you better always use a float, so that you can pull you up by the line if you break a fin.

 

[amihov]

I have float all the time . I think that you are so right about the float and thank you for telling me your experience whit the plastic. Once 4 years ago i had some bad experience whit short fins i was diving and I didn't notice how deep i went water was so clear and warm I went maybe 9 or 10 meter whit short snorkeling fins and then when I start swimming up the surface notice that i am almost not moving up I . Again I was alone spearfishing and after i came up on the surface I left the water and went shopping for long fins and i bought my beauchat . It is about 4 years old now and I have swim whit it long time one of the fin has banded to . Before I never practice any training for apnea but now i start practice and i have got better and I know I can go deeper but i don't feel safe with the fins I have . Last time when I went done 15 meter I notice that the fins loose comparing whit a shawl deep. And I taught that maybe is time to change it whit something stronger.
thank you for all the comments . I will probably get Falcon 30.

 

[GreekDiver]

Hi to everybody. I am getting new fins but I am wondering if anybody have comments about the difference between Falcon 30 or Falcon 40. I have swum with my Beauchat Competion ( very long plastic blade not very soft ) for 3 years.
I have used monofin to. I have strong legs in general, the problem I am having now whit my old fins that I am getting scared to dive whit them deeper than 15 m. I always dive alone never whit a partner I know that is not a good practice but any way that is my decision. Whit my plastic fins I can swim for more than 2 hours in cold water and I want to be able to do the same whit the carbon. One reason I gave up on monofin, even I know it is much faster and safer for deep dives I don't like the way it keeps my legs always together and I can't really rest on the surface whit it plus it is much harder to do any spearfishing whit it.
Thank you.
Alex

get the omer rekords. They are hot :inlove

 

[jimdoe2you]

If anyone is interested, I have a brand new pair of C4 Falcon 40 blades that I am never going to use. I will let them go cheap!!!

Jim

 

[SpeerO]

I was using the Beuchat Comps for a while and i just switched over to the C4 (30) I noticed the difference immediatly. It will definetly propell u faster with less energy exertion. Im happy with them.

I think if ur gonna be doing deeper dives then go with the (40) as they are stiffer so better for depth.

Good Luck.

Zane

 

[amihov]

My problem comes from the thickness of the wetsuit I have 7 mm when I go down the wetsuit gets compressed and I become very heavy because I carry more than 24 pounds of lead . And I feel it when I am under 12 meters . This is one of the reasons I can't decide between 30 and 40 falcons . I know 30 will be easier to swim on the surface but 40 will give me more room to dive deeper and safer. Plus when the fins has been evaluated I don’t think they have tray them whit so much lead .

 

[jimdoe2you]

Plus when the fins has been evaluated I don’t think they have tray them whit so much lead .

Could you restate this sentence in a different way. The meaning is not quite clear. Thanks.

Jim

 

[jome]

Personally I think you have much more room for improvement in your suit/weights configuration, than fins.

A good wetsuit costs about the same as a pair of carbon fins - but would benefit you much more (instead on investing on something that allows you to work harder at depth, you invest on something that makes the whole dive (both descent and ascent) easier and allows you to acutally save work).

24 pounds is a HUGE amount of weight for a freediver. I don't know any pair of fins that I would like to drag that amount up from 15+m with. With a good suit, you should really not require more than 4-5 pounds if you're diving around 15-20m, and just a pound or let's say at most 10-12 lbs for shallower dives.

Carbon fins are nice, but in my experience, it doesn't really make a huge diffenrence in you preformance...Not 24 pounds worth anyway.

So, that is my frank opinnion. Your problem is not bad fins (those are pretty good ones, or at least ok ones), but the huge amount of weight and the enormous buoyancy change from 7mm of neoprene at depth (and if I might venture a guess, a not all together efficient duck dive, for which the big weights are compensating for).

 

[amihov]

What I am saying is that when I dive the wetsuit gets compressed and I loose bionce to compensate for the lead I am caring. I am not sure how much lead I need to carry. I can tray dropping the wait with 5 more pounds.

 

[demasoni]

A minimum of 24 lbs of lead will lead to being excessively (dangerously) negative once you pass neutral buoyancy. A general rule of thumb is to be neutral at 30 ft.

If I were you, I would lose at least 10 lbs of weight right away and take it from there.

 

[demasoni]

sorry, double post - didn't log-in!

 

[amihov]

I knew i was doing something wrong . I have never look in to how much wait i was caring . I just found out that I was diving until today whit total of 29 pounds . I was thinking that is 24 but it was 29 . I have removed 10 pounds and I will tray it again .

 

[GreekDiver]

I knew i was doing something wrong . I have never look in to how much wait i was caring . I just found out that I was diving until today whit total of 29 pounds . I was thinking that is 24 but it was 29 . I have removed 10 pounds and I will tray it again .

depends how fat you are too. More body fat more floaty

No offense, but I disagree with Jome. Carbon fins are sweet and much more efficient than fiberglass/composite/kevlar/plastic fins. It really doesn't matter how much weight you have as long as you are neutral at 30ft. Some people just need more weight to be neutral at the 30ft.

 

[GreekDiver]

What I am saying is that when I dive the wetsuit gets compressed and I loose bionce to compensate for the lead I am caring. I am not sure how much lead I need to carry. I can tray dropping the wait with 5 more pounds.

How deep are you diving? Even the cheap suits dont compress that much at shallow depths.

 

[Jon]

I'll jump on this as well.

After having owned both 40's and 30's I much prefer my 30's. Unless your a really big guy with some big legs to push them 40's are kind of overkill. I think that carbon fiber makes a difference, but not as big a difference as you might think if your carrying that much lead.

I would also say your weighting needs some work. I need 22 pounds to spearfish in shallow water, less than 10', in my winter suit, 6mm, but only 6 pounds to dive in the same suit to depths greater than 30'. Same suit, different depths means dropping off weight and putting it in my float/kayak.

Jon

 

[Narsil]

I'd go for as soft as possible. I own the C4 30's and love them.

Also agree with comments regarding your wetsuit. Ideally it would be great if your climate allowed a move to 5mm. It sounds like you need to buy a wetsuit made of higher density, or "harder" neoprene. Medium density Heiwa rather than soft to medium Yamamoto for instance. It's a small trade off in comfort and flexibility, with the pay off being much less compression/ buoyancy change at even standard spearfishing / FD depths.

Hope that you've been wearing a rubber weight belt btw...

 

[jome]

Well, I'm not saying carbon fins couldn't benefit him, but that there is a bigger bang for the same buck in getting a good suit and working on weighing.

I'd say if the problem is that he finds it "too heavy to swim from depth with current fins", the solution is not to get stiffer/more efficient fins. That's like putting a bigger engine on a car to increase the mileage per gallon.

In stead, work on making the work required to swim up from depth more reasonable.

I have never met a diver that actually NEEDS 30lbs of lead, that is simply enormous. Being neutral at 30 feet is a good rule of thumb, but you have to take into account the relative buoyancy change. Ie if you are neutral at 30 feet with a 5mm suit, or 7mm suit, at 45 feet you will be much more negative with the 7mm suit, because the relative buoyancy change is (much) bigger.

Ideally, one would not have any weights, no wetsuit and empty lungs. Then there would be no buoyancy change and it would pretty much make no difference if you even had fins on, because you could just zoom throught the water effortlessly.

I guarantee you that a well balanced, hydrodynamic, as neutral as possible diver with floppy rubber fins is more efficiant than someone dragging 30 lbs of lead from depth using the most hi-tec fins available. In fact, I don't find this even disputable, since it is simply the objective thruth.