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C4 carbon fins stiffness...30 vs 40

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
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smithpa

New Member
Jul 8, 2005
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I am seriously considering purchase a pair of the new super falcon C4 fins for freediving, but I can't decide if I should go with the 30 or 40 stiffness. I would appreciate any input some of you might have in this.
 
The answer can be derived from a culmination of variables that you can supply us if want to supply us with answers to the following:

1. How tall are you and what do you weigh?
2. Are you an experienced swimmer and freediver?
3. Can you maintain a strong and determined kick when necessary?
4. What fins are you using now or currently used to?
5. How deep are you going and what depths would you like to reach?
6. Where are you located (so that we understand your diving environment)?
7. What thickness wetsuits are you using?
8. How much lead are you using?

 
1. How tall are you and what do you weigh? 5' 8" 150 lbs
2. Are you an experienced swimmer and freediver? about 6 years xp
3. Can you maintain a strong and determined kick when necessary? generally, yes.
4. What fins are you using now or currently used to? Riffe open pocket from shore and Omer/Riffe plastic full pockets from boat
5. How deep are you going and what depths would you like to reach? currently comfortable at about 60, would like to be comfortable around 80
6. Where are you located (so that we understand your diving environment)? Okinawa, Japan....tropical reefs
7. What thickness wetsuits are you using? Omer Ocean Mimetic 3mm, but will change to the 5mm in a month or 2
8. How much lead are you using? 14-16 lbs

thanks for the reply jimdoe2you
 
First thing I notice is that's a lot of lead if you are diving or hunting to 60' with a 3mm on and especially for your build. Here is a copy of something I sent Skinner about a month ago regarding proper weighting:

When weighting yourself properly while hunting, you need to first determine your typical hunting depth and then weight yourself slightly negative with neutral bouyancy depth being 25% above your hunting depth with a minimum depth of 5' and a maximum of 30'.

Here are some examples of Hunting Depth and Neutral Bouyancy Depth:

10' HD = 5' NBD (5' minimum)
20' HD = 15' NBD (25% above HD)
30' HD = 23' NBD (25% above HD)
40' HD = 30' NBD (25% above HD)
50' HD = 30' NBD (30' maximum)
60' HD = 30' NBD (30' maximum)
70' HD = 30' NBD (30' maximum)
80' HD = 30' NBD (30' maximum)

The second thing is it looks pretty solid that you should be considering the 30 stiffness. I am 99% certain you would not like the 40 stiffness because you wouldn't be developing the proper kick cycle.

This is an easy recommendation, ..............get the 30.

 
Reactions: spaghetti
My two cents.... Get the 30's. I have very strong legs, but I have a hard time maintaining a proper kick cycle due to a hip injury. I feel like I'm going farther and faster with stiff fins, but I have noticed that I can cover the same distance with the same speed with almost no effort using the 30's.
Tony
 
To give you an idea, I have a direct comparison from my peak in '03 and my peak in 04 after I broke the 40. The time for a 50 meter dive averages about 6 seconds more with the 30s, but I dive more relaxed and added 5 meters (and 15 seconds) to my PB. I vote for the 30s too.
You'll probably want to use a mono before you want the 40s. Worst case, if you take care of them, you'll get most of your money back on e-Bay. There still the best spear fishing fin around.
 
Thanks alot guys. Great information! I'm going to take your suggestion and go for the 30.

Jimdoe,
Most of my diving is in the 40-50 foot range, but I am very comfortable hitting 60 or even 70 on occasion. I don't dive any particular depth and tend to dive all ranges from 20 foot on, until I find where the fish are concentrated. 80% of the time, I dive and lay on the bottom waiting for fish, and my current wetsuit is almost brand new, so this is why I currently use more weight. I prefer not to have to cling to a rock or coral head to stay on the bottom at 20 feet. I think that your suggestion for proper weighting is right on, and appreciate the additional information. Cheers! :friday
 
Just a quick comment. Instead of using the normal weight chart, I tried leaving a few liters out of the lungs (almost FRC) for shallow dives and weight for 30 foot neutral. It saves having to fin on the surface when breathing up. Contractions seem to come at the same time and I don't like to lie on the bottom having them. For deep dives you just kick a few more times off the surface. In theory, surface noise isn't important when you're going to 40-50 feet.
 
Hi,
I have a problem with my mustang fisn and they will be replaced (waranty). i have model 30 and i asked if they could be changed by model 40. i was told that it's ok.
I'm 1.8m 100kg and diving up to 20 m. will 40 be too stiff? with model 30 i feel like i have nothing in my feet and i was wondering if the 40 will give more "power"... i still might continue with the 30
i use 6/7 kg lead with a 5mm (since it has 3 years now it's a litle less) suit

sorry for my english and thank you for your time
 
There is not so much difference that you will go from 'nothing in my feet' to 'too stiff'. In your case, I think the only time that the 30s may feel better is on the surface. Testing on a dive will tell you more. Yesterday I timed a 30 meter dive with my old 30s to compare with the Mustang 40s that I've been using. It took a little longer to get off the surface and the kick was a little faster. The dive was 4-5 seconds longer but felt easier. When my legs are stronger, I'll try the 40s again.
 
thanks for the input Bill...
I'm now more towards 40. Also i've tryed specialfins hybrid professional hard and it felt Ok. i don't think that the c4 will be more stiff then that.... anyone can help on this?
 
Please help me decide 30 or 40 stiffness C4 Mustangs....

The answer can be derived from a culmination of variables that you can supply us if want to supply us with answers to the following:

1. How tall are you and what do you weigh? 6'-3" 240lb
2. Are you an experienced swimmer and freediver? great swimmer 3 year freediver
3. Can you maintain a strong and determined kick when necessary? yes when necessary
4. What fins are you using now or currently used to? gara 3000LD
5. How deep are you going and what depths would you like to reach? 90ft target 110-120ft
6. Where are you located (so that we understand your diving environment)? canada ontario
7. What thickness wetsuits are you using? 7mm
8. How much lead are you using? 6lbs

[/QUOTE]
 
For that height and weight I'd say you'd be a good candidate for the 40's

I'm 5'10" and 180 pounds- and dropping. I just got a pair of Mustang flap 30's and they are the best fins I've owned to date. Surface swimming is so much easier than with standard footpockets. I've only had them down to 10 meters so far, but am looking forward to hitting some depth once lakes clear up a bit this fall.

One interesting thing about the Mustang 30's is that they are shorter than my Flacon 30's. If the Mustang 80's are similar in size to a standard Falcon blade, instead of the longer Falcon 80 blades, then they should be easy enough to spear with.

Jon
 
Jon, do you have any issues with your blades touching when you kick with your Mustangs? I've tried a set once before, and I had to adjust my kick so that the blades didn't hit each other.
 
I was worried that I might after reading some of the threads on here but it wasn't an issue at all.

The ONLY fins I've ever had that problem with were a pair of SpecialFins Hybrids- not a problem with their standard blades.

Jon
 
Too wide and I kept hitting my blades together when I swam.

I never had this issue when using Specialfins Classics, Kelpies, or Pros- just the Hybrids.

Jon
 
Gents,

Appreciate your inputs here. I have spoken to the C4 store manager in the USA and he have recommended the Mustang C4 25 stiffness for me.

I am 1.76m tall weighting 73 Kgs diving to 20m and aiming for 30+m.

I wear a 2.5mm suit with 4 kgs of lead.

Thanks for your prompt advise.
 
Nothing especially new to add except that I tried C4 Scorpio 30s in pool since that's what my buddy had but I ended up buying Scorpio 40s and I like them. I felt a little like I was running in place with 30s. I had been diving with very stiff plastic fins before, but the 40s pushed more water. A little bit of ankle conditioning helped me--surgical tubing on a 10lbs weight, loop the tubing over the top of my foot and letting the weight dangle, straighten the foot and bounce the weight; my legs are in good shape and I have good kicking technique so I always feel stiff fins in my ankles more than my legs. I will say that the 40s push a lot of water and if I stop diving for a while I probably wish I had something softer. I am 6', 175lbs, and don't do any surface/snorkel swimming. Local dives are typically less than 60' but when traveling I frequently spear much deeper.
 
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