Calories and Freediving

[ReefTroll]

How would one go about working out an average of calories burnt in dynamic dives?

 

[martin366]

I dont know how much calories i burn, but after training i drink, eat 1 banana (carbohydrates) and 80g dried chicken (lots of protein) + eat full size meal at home. Ofcourse sleep a lot for full recovery
Good luck for training!

 

[ReefTroll]

It always feel that I have put in more effort per metre while doing apnea than doing surface swimming.

 

[apneaboy]

It always feel that I have put in more effort per metre while doing apnea than doing surface swimming.

Your chin is in the water rofl

 

[apneaboy]

But honestly, get someone to video you, look for hydrodynamics (like trailing legs and arms) check your stroke, and a couple of times try stopping when swimming and assess your buoyancy to make sure you are neutral and also float flat as opposed to feet or head up

 

[bobdonny]

Weigh yourself before and after recalculate based on 1lb fat takes 3500kcal to burn and that should give you a little idea. Heart rate monitor would work too... Vo2 would be most accurate... but not sure how that would work with breath hold...

 

[Mullins]

Since you're 1. using fins and 2. swimming underwater where there are no issues with surface turbulence etc, I assume caloric expenditure would be a bit less than swimming the same distance. I don't know how much less, maybe 75%? The figures for swimming must be published somewhere so it's a place to start anyway.

Bobdonny, most of the preost weight difference would be down to fluid loss. Surely the weight of fat lost in a session would be negligible.

 

[trux]

Anaerobic metabolism is far less efficient than the aerobic one, so you burn more calories at anaerobic swims (hard sprint or apnea), than at aerobic swims. At anaerobic exercise you burn percentually more glycogen than fats, but absolutely taken still more fats than at the mostly fat-burning aerobic exercise.

Additonally, at the anaerobic training, there is an increased caloric expenditure of recovery. Unlike at an aerobic exercise, the caloric expenditure of anaerobic training extends well beyond the workout. The excess post-workout oxygen consumption following anaerobic exercise is much greater. This means that your body is burning a higher amount of fat long after your workout is over.

Freely quoted from: http://www.examiner.com/weight-loss-in-hartford/training-for-weight-loss-aerobic-vs-anaerobic

 

[Mullins]

Lactate gets used as an aerobic energy source Trux.

With regards to the post-workout O2 consumption, when they say "anaerobic training" they are referring to the type of training (heavy resistance) as much as to the metabolic pathway that's being used. It's the kind of training that results in muscle hypertrophy, whereas freediving does not.

 

[ReefTroll]

Thanks heaps for the responses. I'm not being overly critical with my weight, just counting calories more as a guide line to a year of fitness. So was wondering about an average which should be able to be figured out from your info guys.

Apboy, *&#$off. =)

 

[trux]

Lactate gets used as an aerobic energy source Trux.

Yes, of course, Dave, it does, but it does not change anything on the fact that this overall anaerobic+aerobic metabolic cycle is less efficent than the aerobic only. If it was not, the body would use it all the time. Additionally the lactate is used relatively slowly, not at a normal exertion, but after a prolonged intense extertion. It is quite questionable whether it is used at all in this way aerobically during or after an apnea training session. You would probably have to structure the training accordingly, or add some intense aerobic long-distance swimming afterwards. Common spearfishing trips with a lot of surface swimming or current figthing between the dives may be close to the needed pattern, but then again it is then not quite ideal since the oxygen is used for breaking the lactate, and oxygen stores do not get fully recharged, hence the dive times drop, and the risk of a premature hypoxic blackout raises.

With regards to the post-workout O2 consumption, when they say "anaerobic training" they are referring to the type of training (heavy resistance) as much as to the metabolic pathway that's being used. It's the kind of training that results in muscle hypertrophy, whereas freediving does not.

Yes, the rebuilding of the damaged muscle tissue during the post-workout phase is mentioned in the article too, but separately from (or in plus to) the post-workout oxygen consumption burning fats (EPOC). I admit I did not search the studies they mention, and do not know the exact details and how much of it is to be accounted to the lactate, and to which extent there are also other processes involved.

EDIT: The process of burning lactate is not just the simple chemical formula - for example several enzymes are needed for the transport of the lactate from cytoplasm to mitochondria, and for burning it there. Their function is catalictic (not being consumed in that process), but I guess they get used in certain way anyway and need rebuilding, which again may consume some energy. Similarly the reoxidation and renewing of other oxygen stores (i.e. hemoglobin, myoglobin, neuroglobins,...) may be more complex than just the simple binding of the missing O2, and some energy consumption may be involved. Again, some of them may need renewing - breaking down the damaged units, and rebuilding new ones, which costs energy too. Human body is quite complex and the simple formulas of direct aerobic or anaerobic burning of energy supplies are very far from entirely describing the complexity of the process.

EDIT2: Equally rebuilding of the energy stores (mostly ATP) after the workout will consume supplies.

 

[Mullins]

Yes, of course, Dave, it does, but it does not change anything on the fact that this overall anaerobic+aerobic metabolic cycle is less efficent than the aerobic only. If it was not, the body would use it all the time.

But the body does use it all the time, even under light load. Lactate is constantly being created and used by muscles. The main drawback of that cycle is its short-term sustainability when used as the predominant energy source, not necessarily its overall energy efficiency. Do you happen to know whether the overall efficiency is actually lower or not?

Yes, the rebuilding of the damaged muscle tissue during the post-workout phase is mentioned in the article too, but separately from (or in plus to) the post-workout oxygen consumption burning fats (EPOC).

My point here was that the kinds of exercise being compared (heavy resistance and light hypoxic) are quite different in certain ways. Because studies like this don't specify the exact reason for EPOC, I'm not confident it is due to the metabolic pathway being used. It could be some other aspect of the exercise.


If, overall, the anaerobic + aerobic pathway is less efficient, any idea where that inefficiency lies and how the extra work is expressed? The extra work won't be manifested as increased body temperature or physical work and it isn't excreted as chemical potential energy as far as I know. You've mentioned possible enzymatic changes etc above, but surely that uncertainty would apply equally to the aerobic pathway.

 

[trux]

Of course the lactate production is always present, but it does not create a surplus of lactate as the anaerobic metabolism does. The lactate created in anaerobic mode, cannot be used without oxygen, hence it needs to be either burned afterward in muscles (it means when diving you would have to add some intense aerobic exercise), or it is being carried away to the liver, where it is being metabolized to CO2 and ATP - normally that's what happens with a significant part of the excess lactate.

I do not have right now at the hand any study with exact numbers about the efficiency of aerobic vs. anaerobic metabolism, or the studies about the EPOC after anaerobic exercise they mention, but both are rather common claims appearing not only on popular websites, so it should be possible to find some scientific works speaking about it in details.

BTW, the extra work is expressed besides others by the post-workout burn phase, but I do not exclude there are other pathways as well. If body temperature remains the same, it does not mean the radiated heat is the same too. The body has an efficient thermoregulation, so the body temperature would not necessarily change. I do not know about any specific studies on this topic, but guess you may be able to find them perhaps too. Besides it, as I wrote, to burn all the excess lactate you'd need to add significant aerobic work (or let the liver metabolizing it), so this is also what expresses the extra work you search.

 

[Sergiu]

Why not try a Heart Rate Monitor to measure your kcal consumption? I have one, Polar F80, water resistant (sort of!), at least good enough for pool training. Basically this HRM calculates rather accurately your kcal consumption, assuming you set it up properly with your age, weight, sex, plus a couple of other variables that is able to "guess" based on your type of training, frequency etc. below is an example calculated based on your heart rate "zones" correlated to energy expenditure, on average.

HR Zones Energy expenditure (avg.)
HR % bpm kcal/min kcal/h
50 - 60 % 96-114 7.6 453
60 - 70 % 115-133 10.4 623
70 - 80 % 134-153 13.2 792
80 - 90 % 154-172 16.0 962
90 - 100 % 173-192 20.2 1214

From experience, i noticed that my heart rate stays in the range up to 120-130bpm when doing average dynamic apnea no fins (series, without long recovery times and no dive reflex), while for surface swimming it would be 130-140bpm, thus a higher energy consumption on surface. Interestingly, at least for me until i figured it out, swimming is really great workout, 30-60minutes in the pool is better burns more stuff than running the same time on treadmill! And more fun!

 

[azapa]

check out this interesting thread:
http://forums.deeperblue.com/freedi...30468-calorie-questions-personal-trainer.html

Terry Maas calculates that an incredible 1200 calories an hour are burnt in cold water spearing.