I can hold my breath for 2.5 minutes when practicing and going through C02/02 Tolerance Tables. However, I can only stay under water for around 45 seconds. I recently took a trip to St Kitts and went free diving 3 different days and the results were the same each time. I don't understand the difference. Thoughts?
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Can't hold breath under water as long as on land
- Thread starterbill_m3
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Thread Status: Hello
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There are A LOT of different factors that would determine your bottom time.
The first one is that I assume that you have achived a 2:30 Static (Laying/Sitting down and holding your breath). That number is always going to be higher then your actual dives. Mainly because you are moving around when you dive (Fining). When you exert your muscles they require oxygen to continue working.
Another factor is when you actually went diving. Like did you eat before hand? If so that is not wise for many reasons. You stomach requires a good deal of blood to help digest your food and that would hinder your performance under the water.
These are some of the major factors that should help you understand why your 'dry' times are a lot different then your 'wet' ones.
The first one is that I assume that you have achived a 2:30 Static (Laying/Sitting down and holding your breath). That number is always going to be higher then your actual dives. Mainly because you are moving around when you dive (Fining). When you exert your muscles they require oxygen to continue working.
Another factor is when you actually went diving. Like did you eat before hand? If so that is not wise for many reasons. You stomach requires a good deal of blood to help digest your food and that would hinder your performance under the water.
These are some of the major factors that should help you understand why your 'dry' times are a lot different then your 'wet' ones.
Hi!
Not to worry, that is about right when you consider the difference between static breath holds (motionless) and swimming UW when you are using up 02...
I usually calculate my downtime at about 40% of my static duration... As you move up the tables, your UW durations will increase...
Some simple ways to squeeze more time out is to review technical dives and bouyancy. Also, if you make of study of how to initiate the mammalian diving reflex and do it before you dive, your durations will improve considerably...
Hope this helps,
Lungfish
Not to worry, that is about right when you consider the difference between static breath holds (motionless) and swimming UW when you are using up 02...
I usually calculate my downtime at about 40% of my static duration... As you move up the tables, your UW durations will increase...
Some simple ways to squeeze more time out is to review technical dives and bouyancy. Also, if you make of study of how to initiate the mammalian diving reflex and do it before you dive, your durations will improve considerably...
Hope this helps,
Lungfish
Thanks...this is all great info. Regarding eating, how many hours should one wait after eating? I ate 1-2 hours before my dives but I'm thinking that may have been too early. On the boat, I was doing 2 minute static breath holds right before going in. It was frustrating because my first dives were only lasting 30 seconds and then I increased to 45 seconds--maybe 50 seconds max.
There is probably also the saftey factor in the back of my mind. I don't have anyone to dive with and so I always just go on the snorkeling trips when I'm travelling. I'm usually the only one diving down. I'd probably feel more relaxed if another free diver were with me and I could push my times without worrying. I've gone about 40 feet just practicing on my own and no instruction. I don't even know anyone else who freedives. What would be a relatively "safe" depth for me to try without another freediver and considering I can probably work up to 1 minute while under.
Overall, I love the sport. The sense of oneness with the sea is just amazing. I live in Southern California but only freedive on trips to Hawaii and the Carribean. How does it compare? I've been once to Catalina but never off the mainland. I'm thinking about trying it this summer locally.
There is probably also the saftey factor in the back of my mind. I don't have anyone to dive with and so I always just go on the snorkeling trips when I'm travelling. I'm usually the only one diving down. I'd probably feel more relaxed if another free diver were with me and I could push my times without worrying. I've gone about 40 feet just practicing on my own and no instruction. I don't even know anyone else who freedives. What would be a relatively "safe" depth for me to try without another freediver and considering I can probably work up to 1 minute while under.
Overall, I love the sport. The sense of oneness with the sea is just amazing. I live in Southern California but only freedive on trips to Hawaii and the Carribean. How does it compare? I've been once to Catalina but never off the mainland. I'm thinking about trying it this summer locally.
Hi there Bill and all .. 
The "Safe" depth for diving alone ? .. how about 0 feet ! .. yes, this is the max you can dive when you are alone, actually you could consider similar depths when freediving with a buddy who has no basic knowledge about diving safety prosedures .. .. same thing applies for the duration ofcourse, you may consider 1 minute as a period too short to blackout, reconsider .. if the water is too cold, you are too exhausted at the end of your diving journey (when most divers usually try to do their longest deepest dive for no good reason !!) at which conditions, your diving duration may drop to be 50% of your average, so if yours is 1 minute, it may drop to 30 sec !! so be careful, NEVER EVER dive alone, never ever without proper company (a budy who knows).
The "Safe" depth for diving alone ? .. how about 0 feet ! .. yes, this is the max you can dive when you are alone, actually you could consider similar depths when freediving with a buddy who has no basic knowledge about diving safety prosedures ..
.. same thing applies for the duration ofcourse, you may consider 1 minute as a period too short to blackout, reconsider .. if the water is too cold, you are too exhausted at the end of your diving journey (when most divers usually try to do their longest deepest dive for no good reason !!) at which conditions, your diving duration may drop to be 50% of your average, so if yours is 1 minute, it may drop to 30 sec !! so be careful, NEVER EVER dive alone, never ever without proper company (a budy who knows).
Now comes my question if you allow me ..
lungfish and morg.. I do about 4 min 30 sec dry static, when I go wet it drops to around 2 min 30 sec ! .. wait now .. this is static again but with my face and body into water, totaly relaxed floating ! .. so the energy and O2 consumption related to finning is not applicable, no food as well, actually I always do dry before starting the wet so both are on the same time .. what do you think ?!
I believe the factor Bill raised:
lungfish and morg.. I do about 4 min 30 sec dry static, when I go wet it drops to around 2 min 30 sec ! .. wait now .. this is static again but with my face and body into water, totaly relaxed floating ! .. so the energy and O2 consumption related to finning is not applicable, no food as well, actually I always do dry before starting the wet so both are on the same time .. what do you think ?!
I believe the factor Bill raised:
such factor would make a lot of difference. That's all I can think off, any more ideas or techniques please ?
I've also noticed the big difference between dry static times and dynamic times in the water. I've also noticed that a dynamic dry apnea (walking around while holding the breath) can be done much longer than a water, dynamic apnea. So, as others have posted, I don't think the shorter time has only to do with the consumption of O2 for finning. Does it have something to do with the increased pressure and resultant lower volume of of air in the lungs?
Umm.. this is a tough one.
The only things that I can see being different are in fact what you mentioned. The thought in the back of our heads that make sure we walk away from this breath hold. Because we aren't in an oxygen enviroment we have to take extra percausion. One other aspect that follows this I believe is your heart rate.
Last night I picked up my o2/co2 tables and I started off at level 3. I noticed my heart rate was A LOT slower then when I was training dynamic + minor static at the pool. Also at the pool I had to dedicate my mind to slowing my heart rate. When I was doing the dry ones I didn't even think about it and when I measured it, it was very slow.
Another issue might be the tempature. If the water is a lot colder then the air around you then doesn't your heart need to beat alot faster to keep the blood moving to provide warmth?
Also about the apnea walk. I have heard of a neat technique to do.
You sit down on the ground and begin your breath hold, but you don't get up and start walking right away. You sit there for 1 minute and once that minute is up you get up and start walking. The purpose for this is for your body to build up Co2 in your system, then start working your muscles.
The only things that I can see being different are in fact what you mentioned. The thought in the back of our heads that make sure we walk away from this breath hold. Because we aren't in an oxygen enviroment we have to take extra percausion. One other aspect that follows this I believe is your heart rate.
Last night I picked up my o2/co2 tables and I started off at level 3. I noticed my heart rate was A LOT slower then when I was training dynamic + minor static at the pool. Also at the pool I had to dedicate my mind to slowing my heart rate. When I was doing the dry ones I didn't even think about it and when I measured it, it was very slow.
Another issue might be the tempature. If the water is a lot colder then the air around you then doesn't your heart need to beat alot faster to keep the blood moving to provide warmth?
Also about the apnea walk. I have heard of a neat technique to do.
You sit down on the ground and begin your breath hold, but you don't get up and start walking right away. You sit there for 1 minute and once that minute is up you get up and start walking. The purpose for this is for your body to build up Co2 in your system, then start working your muscles.
Oh and another similar note.
Cardio + physical fitness really works. I just found that out last night.
When I was doing my 02 table I was on my last breath hold of 3:00 and I figured I would just continue going to see how far I could make it. I made a new PB of 4 minutes. Before I made it to 3:45 and I was getting really uncomfortable near that time. (I would sit up and move around... I knew that wasn't helping but I couldn't help it).
This time I just sat there and went right through it. I plan on doing another attempt later on in the week to see if I can break 5:00.
Cardio + physical fitness really works. I just found that out last night.
When I was doing my 02 table I was on my last breath hold of 3:00 and I figured I would just continue going to see how far I could make it. I made a new PB of 4 minutes. Before I made it to 3:45 and I was getting really uncomfortable near that time. (I would sit up and move around... I knew that wasn't helping but I couldn't help it).
This time I just sat there and went right through it. I plan on doing another attempt later on in the week to see if I can break 5:00.
Hi All,
This is interesting.... I don't know why statics on land would be longer than statics in water... could be psychological - I equal times regardless of wet or dry but I have been a swimmer all my life. Its fair to say that if I was sleeping on the deck of a ship and fell in, I would wake up swimming....
Cold water on your face should help the MDR initiate and make your durations longer, but it takes a few minutes with your face submerged (use a snorkel).
It is reasonable to expect all dynamics to be shorter than statics...
About diving alone.. Adolphin speaks the party line. Don't dive alone.
Now for the reality of the situation, if you don't dive alone, sometimes you don't get to dive at all...
There will always be people who climb without ropes, solo, and the mindset is aescetic. As long as they aren't risking others and children aren't waiting at home, its their business.
The best thing you can do if you dive alone is to a) educate yourself very, very well and b) Use your equipment, its your safety net.
Get a D3, get a wetsuit with proper bouyancy weights, get good fins and have your gear kit polished up. Use it all because it works as your safety net. If you are wearing neoprene and diving under 60ft, you can throw off your belt and be on top in seconds....
At the same time there are certain types of gas imbalances that cause instantaneous blackouts. You need a proper understanding of freediving physiology.
You should know that deeper diving than what you are doing has attendant physiological hazards. Be careful.
Since you travel alot you might want to consider taking a course... deeperblue has training available in the UK and if you want to study stateside www.performancefreediving.com
It is worth every penny and fun too....
I have a house in Kona where some of the PFD courses happen and many attendees are staying with me... PFD courses also happen in Miami and other towns, take a look at their schedule...
Lungfish
This is interesting.... I don't know why statics on land would be longer than statics in water... could be psychological - I equal times regardless of wet or dry but I have been a swimmer all my life. Its fair to say that if I was sleeping on the deck of a ship and fell in, I would wake up swimming....
Cold water on your face should help the MDR initiate and make your durations longer, but it takes a few minutes with your face submerged (use a snorkel).
It is reasonable to expect all dynamics to be shorter than statics...
About diving alone.. Adolphin speaks the party line. Don't dive alone.
Now for the reality of the situation, if you don't dive alone, sometimes you don't get to dive at all...
There will always be people who climb without ropes, solo, and the mindset is aescetic. As long as they aren't risking others and children aren't waiting at home, its their business.
The best thing you can do if you dive alone is to a) educate yourself very, very well and b) Use your equipment, its your safety net.
Get a D3, get a wetsuit with proper bouyancy weights, get good fins and have your gear kit polished up. Use it all because it works as your safety net. If you are wearing neoprene and diving under 60ft, you can throw off your belt and be on top in seconds....
At the same time there are certain types of gas imbalances that cause instantaneous blackouts. You need a proper understanding of freediving physiology.
You should know that deeper diving than what you are doing has attendant physiological hazards. Be careful.
Since you travel alot you might want to consider taking a course... deeperblue has training available in the UK and if you want to study stateside www.performancefreediving.com
It is worth every penny and fun too....
I have a house in Kona where some of the PFD courses happen and many attendees are staying with me... PFD courses also happen in Miami and other towns, take a look at their schedule...
Lungfish
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I appreciate all the responses. I realize that diving alone isn't the smartest thing. But reality is that I won't dive if I don't do it alone. I've found myself in Roatan, St Kitts, Maui and other places with beautiful reefs and no one to dive with. I usually ask the boat captain who is typically a dive master to keep an eye out for me. I also have my wife stick her head in the water and just watch me when I go more than 20 feet and I stay close to the boat so the dive master could always jump in. I know I'm still at risk but I'm trying to not push the limits and don't go more than 30 feet. Would you all seriously just snorkel, and not dive, if you found yourself over a beautiful reef in a pristine part of the world? I'm trying to understand the limits and where something is risky versus crazy. Also, I read about the 4 day courses and I'm interested! I'm glad I found this forum. Thanks all.
Yes I would definatly understand the tempation to freedive in those areas. You just have to REALLY watch yourself to make sure your not making any long + deep dives. Just be smart about it and don't push the envlope .
I am doing that same thing in the pool, there are like 2-3 life guards watching and theres loads of people around that can help me if I run into problems but I don't rely on them 1 bit. I've learned that only educated freedivers are only to be trusted when pushing your limits. With that course you will learn safty measures and all that good stuff. I am signed up to take one of those courses in October.
I will run into the same problem when September rolls around. I won't have anyone to freedive with me during the week and I plan on doing other exercises as opposed to giving %100.
If your interested there was an article written by a guy that just took the class. He goes in great depth and detail about what he learned and his goals. I found it very interesting and just further sold me into that course. I believe he hit 90ft and he was pretty new to freediving. If you have problems finding it PM me I'm sure I can get a link for you.
. I am doing that same thing in the pool, there are like 2-3 life guards watching and theres loads of people around that can help me if I run into problems but I don't rely on them 1 bit. I've learned that only educated freedivers are only to be trusted when pushing your limits. With that course you will learn safty measures and all that good stuff
. I am signed up to take one of those courses in October. I will run into the same problem when September rolls around. I won't have anyone to freedive with me during the week and I plan on doing other exercises as opposed to giving %100.
If your interested there was an article written by a guy that just took the class. He goes in great depth and detail about what he learned and his goals. I found it very interesting and just further sold me into that course. I believe he hit 90ft and he was pretty new to freediving
. If you have problems finding it PM me I'm sure I can get a link for you.Yea, the PFD course is well worth the money. Morg will be coming to my place in Kona for the October class.... if you are interested in that, PM me with your email address and I will get back to you. The water there is incredible, dolphins, turtles, etc... tropical like St.Kits...
Take the intermediate course.... they aren't that stringent on capabilities and if you are doing 40ft, you qualify. The physiology training is great in the intermediate class and some folks get to 100ft by the end. I did 90 something and I had never freedived before. No substitute for good teachers. Why learn the hard way?
Like I said, sometimes you have to dive alone. Get some gear, get educated and for gods sake, be careful. Your equipment is part of your safety net. Wear a 3mm neoprene suite, 6lbs of lead, a good mask and fins, a D3 or similar computer and get educated.
Take the intermediate course.... they aren't that stringent on capabilities and if you are doing 40ft, you qualify. The physiology training is great in the intermediate class and some folks get to 100ft by the end. I did 90 something and I had never freedived before. No substitute for good teachers. Why learn the hard way?
Like I said, sometimes you have to dive alone. Get some gear, get educated and for gods sake, be careful. Your equipment is part of your safety net. Wear a 3mm neoprene suite, 6lbs of lead, a good mask and fins, a D3 or similar computer and get educated.
Okay! I had a "newbie" breakthrough today that explains, at least for me, the difference between my dynamics in water and my dry statics--I wasn't warming up so there was no MDR. Just spent a couple of hours in a pool. I was going to do dynamic apneas, but I could barely hold my breath longer than 20 secs without feeling uncomfortable. So, with my better half watching, I did wet static apneas using the pool ladder to hold myself under. After going through a table and holding easily up to 3 minutes, I was feeling quite good, so I breathed-up another two minutes and just kicked out along the bottom of the pool. Man-o-man, what a difference, no stress or strain at all. Slow and easy along the bottom for 1:30 before any urge to breath kicked-in. Came back up, breathed-up another 2 minutes and right back down for another easy 1:30. I could have gone longer, but I'm new at this stuff and my wife might get upset if I drown!rofl
So, what I learned today, is that you have to "warm-up" before any dynamic and get that MDR to kick-in. Otherwise, you're just a too-smart-for-your-own-good land walker, air-breather!:t
So, what I learned today, is that you have to "warm-up" before any dynamic and get that MDR to kick-in. Otherwise, you're just a too-smart-for-your-own-good land walker, air-breather!:t
any more ideas or techniques please ?
Hi
I'm nervous about some of what I read in this forum, but if you want your wet statics to equal or even exceed your dry ones, practice is the most important part. Wear enough neoprene so that you can lie quietly in the water for 30 minutes and only feel a little cool.
One way to get a lot of practice is to do static tables or series in the pool while on your back. With someone 'keeping an eye on you', it's almost as safe as in bed .
Aloha
Bill
Hi
I'm nervous about some of what I read in this forum, but if you want your wet statics to equal or even exceed your dry ones, practice is the most important part. Wear enough neoprene so that you can lie quietly in the water for 30 minutes and only feel a little cool.
One way to get a lot of practice is to do static tables or series in the pool while on your back. With someone 'keeping an eye on you', it's almost as safe as in bed .
Aloha
Bill
Lehmann108,
Congrats on experiencing the MDR. You can now understand how a diver who is enhanced by doing tolerance tables will enjoy remarkable performance.
The MDR can be enhanced several ways.... the first way is to lie on your face in the water and breath up through a snorkel. The nerve endings in your face will sense the submersion and that will trigger the initial phases of the MDR. If you do several breath holds prior to getting in the water, then spend 5-8min on your face, then do some more breath holds - just until you get uncomfortable.... and your body will take over and do the rest. It takes about 20min.... you can help this along by concentrating on slowing your heartrate with a basic breathup pattern.
The first time I did prolonged tolerance tables, I didn't get in the water for almost three months. I did heavy interval training 6days a week, and weights. Additionally, I did one Phase per week of tolerance training. When I did get in the water, my entire relationship to the water changed. Suddenly, when the reflex kicked in, I was doing 2.5minute submersions and feeling very, very comfortable. The difference was remarkable, to say the least.
As you can see, our potentials lie far beyond the horizon...
Lungfish
Congrats on experiencing the MDR. You can now understand how a diver who is enhanced by doing tolerance tables will enjoy remarkable performance.
The MDR can be enhanced several ways.... the first way is to lie on your face in the water and breath up through a snorkel. The nerve endings in your face will sense the submersion and that will trigger the initial phases of the MDR. If you do several breath holds prior to getting in the water, then spend 5-8min on your face, then do some more breath holds - just until you get uncomfortable.... and your body will take over and do the rest. It takes about 20min.... you can help this along by concentrating on slowing your heartrate with a basic breathup pattern.
The first time I did prolonged tolerance tables, I didn't get in the water for almost three months. I did heavy interval training 6days a week, and weights. Additionally, I did one Phase per week of tolerance training. When I did get in the water, my entire relationship to the water changed. Suddenly, when the reflex kicked in, I was doing 2.5minute submersions and feeling very, very comfortable. The difference was remarkable, to say the least.
As you can see, our potentials lie far beyond the horizon...
Lungfish
I don't want to burst the bubble of glorious and peaceful experiences under the surface, however it is possible these threads are promoting a widespread possible misconception of the Mammalian Diving Reflex. I have initiated a thread to deal with the topic at:
[ame="http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?p=593905#post593905"]Do you know what MDR is?[/ame]
Why should you look into the thread? Because none of the posts I have seen in these threads lately show me a strong suggestion that the participants are experiencing MDR. Maybe that is meaningful to you in your interest of reaching the best possible experience.
[ame="http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?p=593905#post593905"]Do you know what MDR is?[/ame]
Why should you look into the thread? Because none of the posts I have seen in these threads lately show me a strong suggestion that the participants are experiencing MDR. Maybe that is meaningful to you in your interest of reaching the best possible experience.