Carbon Fins - Soft or Medium??

[Trelos]

Hello!

I was hoping you guys could help me. I recently bought v.soft carbon fins. They are much better than the glass fins I used to have and better than my friends carbon fins I tried before I decided which to buy.

I have tried them out spearfishing 3 times but only the last time I went systematically below 60 feet / 20m.

I was thinking perhaps it would have been better to get slightly harder fins. How do I know if I made the right decision?

Do you guys think that generally, the softer the fin the better? One advantage I see with soft fin is that you can do a large kick with little effort. Perhaps if I had harder fins this would tire me out?

Your advice is much appreciated.

John

 

[SanderP]

Do you feel like you overpower your current fins or it takes too much time to get down? If you're hunting down in the 20m range, I'd say you don't need harder fins.

And eventually, if you're satisfied with your fins - don't regret your choice. That's my opinion.

 

[Trelos]

I dont feel like I can overpower the fins. The larger the kick, the more the push but I was thinking with harder fin maybe a smaller kick gets me down faster?

Which is better, a large effortless kick or a small stiffer kick? What do atheletes generally prefer?

 

[Bill]

When a C4 40 broke (carelessness on my part) I tried C4 80s as a replacement. After changing to a wider kick and adjusting the weight, my best dive was 10 seconds slower and a few meters deeper. I think most divers would do better with a little softer fin.
Aloha
Bill

 

[Marwan]

unless youre a big guy that needs a lot of propulsion to bring you from depth , go for the softer ones....stiff fins, would be tire you out on the surface as you spearfish and on the bottom, you exert more effort... just my personal experience

 

[Seal]

For me hard fins are best.

I like the fact that I only need 3-4 kicks to get down, and I can use all the power I have to get up fast if I want to. For spearfishing I wouldnt go without hard fins. For pure freedive soft fins are fun and relaxing. Just my opinion. Then again Im a pretty big guy and have no problem getting a full flex on my C4 40´s, many think they are way to stiff. It's all in the personal style and prefference.

 

[cdavis]

Hi Trelos,

There is no "best". Whats good for you depends on how you use'em.

Stiffer fins have better acceleration, may be more efficient when going fast, but are much less efficient going slow and they can definately wear you out. I like hard fins (hybrid hards) for spearing, because I shoot free shaft and acceleration to run down the fish is important. For 30 m or deeper, harder is good to get you going quickly when you start up. However, for long days, my medium blades are much better for me. I've used very soft carbons (c4 vtr 25s). they felt fabulous down to 20 meters, but I did not like their results at all at 30 m, too soft for my type of kick. That said, I suspect that a change in kick style might make them effective in deeper water.

Connor

 

[Mullins]

I use C4 80s for deepish spearfishing into the low -40s at times, and occasionally for freediving when I don't feel like using a mono. I weigh 90kg and have a very large buoyancy change as I take down about 11-12l of air with me, prior to packing. You'd have a hard time finding somebody who has to haul more weight off the bottom than me, and the 80s do it fine.

I did a fin test recently in which I graphed 30m dives with 7 different fins, trying my best to put in equal effort for each dive and not to compensate for poor or good fin performance. Interestingly, 5 of the graphs were practically identical (1:17 with very similar profiles), while the two shorter & stiffer fins I tested (C4 30s and Mustang 30s) were a few seconds slower despite the fact I felt like I was motoring while using them. Even more surprisingly, the Omer plastics kept up with all the others. The profile from this dive was identical, and the (subjective) fatigue level was the same. I suspect the commonly held assumption that plastics lag miles behind carbon & glass fins is *******s.... the composites 'feel' nicer but that means nothing, unless you can provide objective evidence of improved performance.

I can post the graphs from the test here if anybody is interested - the fins were: Fisher PowerFins (FiGlass); Powell DiveR (FiGlass); C4 30s; C4 Mustang 30s; C4 80s; Omer Millenium; Waterway #3. I'm not claiming it's a totally objective test but it's definitely better than going on impressions.

Anyway, back to the topic - I suspect that the feeling of 'power' or 'snap' you get from stiff fins is largely illusory when it comes to actual (objective) performance, and is more due to the fact they force you to do leg kicks which feel grunty but are not particularly efficient. With decent technique even the softest fins should provide more than enough acceleration, and with greater efficiency.

 

[Mullins]

My, what a touchy censor :naughty

 

[Trelos]

My, what a touchy censor :naughty

Not so touchy, unless you prefer hard fins in which case :naughty

What a bad joke...

Anyway, thanks guys for your feedback.

 

[ahofbauer]

The Issue about hard or soft Fins is the same as
discussing the gear-shift of a mountain bike.
What is better, a lower gear or a higher gear?

Well, the answer is, that if You won´t be able to
shift gears (like in the case of the fin), You should
get a workable all around solution (not too stiff
nor too floppy). The exact meaning of "stiff" and
"floppy" depends on You.

The only other solution would be to invent a
"gear shifter" (stiffness shifter) for fins, and
eventually, become a millionaire. :t

(already tried, it´s not as easy as it seems at
the first glance) :head

Cheers !!

 

[Haydn]

I am looking for bi fins to enable me to surface fin swim, all day. I need a fin not so hard that I wear out my muscles, but with enough speed to give me 20 miles in reasonable time. I fear soft fins will not give me the speed and make my legs travel to long and slow. I also need speed when required to power me across tide. Being a monofin enthusiast, I know nothing of bi fins. What make etc should I consider? How can I try half a dozen types without having to buy them?

 

[trux]

The only other solution would be to invent a
"gear shifter" (stiffness shifter) for fins, and
eventually, become a millionaire. :t

That already exists. Have a look at Effesub Whalebone freediving fins in the http://forums.deeperblue.net/bi-fins/67558-collection-weird-fins.html

 

[GreekDiver]

I am looking for bi fins to enable me to surface fin swim, all day. I need a fin not so hard that I wear out my muscles, but with enough speed to give me 20 miles in reasonable time. I fear soft fins will not give me the speed and make my legs travel to long and slow. I also need speed when required to power me across tide. Being a monofin enthusiast, I know nothing of bi fins. What make etc should I consider? How can I try half a dozen types without having to buy them?

I really like my omer rekords. They are stiff in the middle but very soft near the tips which makes it good for swimming all day, swimming on the surface and deep diving. I stay in the water about 6 hours when i go diving. I dive usually around 70ft. I dont get tired with these fins. I know lots of deep divers (30m+) who like them a lot. I am not an omer fan either.

Giorgio Dapiran - Benvenuto nel sito del pescatore subacqueo del terzo millennio has nice fins too from what i hear.

 

[cdavis]

Hi Haydn,

For what you describe, I don't think you can go too soft. You will get almost as much speed out of soft blades (there should not be more than 10 percent difference in a sprint, probably less) and the small difference comes at a huge cost in long term effort ability. Long distance places a high premium on efficiency. Soft blades will be much more efficient at the slow to cruising speeds that you would use on a long distance swim. A fin with a bend in it is best, although it is not so important with very soft blades. Think C4 VTR 25s, C4 80s or similar. I suspect that a hard pocket, like Omer, that fits perfectly, will help considerably on efficient power transfer.

Good luck on that swim.

Connor

 

[Bill]

Hayden

I agree with Conner on everything. I've used every fin available in the last 40 years plus the Aqueon (that would still be best for you if you could get one). Remember that the original long fins (all rubber and the feel of noodles) were developed for distance surface swimming. The C4 80 and I suspect the 25 are great on the surface at less than one meter per second. As long as you are performing under 75% of aerobic capacity with unlimited O2 available, comfort is far more important than power or efficiency.
Aloha
Bill