Carter Float-Prachute combo....For Donmoore | DeeperBlue.com Forums
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Carter Float-Prachute combo....For Donmoore

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
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Hi Don,

You are in luck, the float just came in Wednesday.
Here is how I intend to rig it. Have not try it yet but
I hope it work well.

The black cloth or holder that secured the float is from my Riffe
utility float. It uses Velcro to secure. I tried pulling the float hard
and the holder will let go nice and easy. Attached to the float
holder is 1000# Kevlar which I tie to the gun's butt.
 
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Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
72
0
I tied another Kevlar 1000# of about 1 meter long to the black float holder. This line is then attached to the pull cord of the C02 activator but with an intermediatte low breaking line, in this case I used a double tied dental floss. The dental floss will breakaway when it has already pull and puncture the C02 cartridge, so I don't get dragged by the float.

Have tried/simulated a few times and the dentall floss work well but I did not yet install the C02 cylinders. Probably a 20# fishing line is a better bet because when the cylinder is installed, you need sligthly more force to puncture the steel.

By the way what happened to your boat ?
 

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
72
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This is how it will deploy ( supposedly ) underwater.

In my case I have a reel because I scuba and I will still attach two of Riffe utility floats on the gun's butt for extra insurance. If the fish seems to be able to overpower the parachute-float, I will acvtivate my 2 Riffe 7 liter float and send my gun to the surface so that the Riffe 7 liter float can inflate to the fullest and be effective. Have tested the Riffe 7 liter floats and they are good insurance for me.

This Carter parachute float is called CFS-45 ( Carter Fish Stopper ), you won't see it on his www, it is still a prototype. Just tell Mr Carter that you want to buy the same unit like the whacky Indonesian who ordered 10 from him.

This parachute float will fully inflate at SURFACE with a 45 gram C02. Since I wanted it to be decently inflated at 120 feet saltwater, it actually need a 175 gram C02 if at 120 feet.
The cost of a 150 gram C02 is US$52 something from Leland but if you order many-many, I think it is US$25 or something.

So I decided to use 2 x 68 gram instead. Thus I have 2 C02 activator built in. It's a bit of financial calculation and and also technical. If I play shallow, I can use a single C02, if I play deep, I use the double C02. Having two separate C02 is also good because the activator is the same size regardless of C02 cylinder size, this means the bigger the C02 cylinder the more load/drag it has to take when a fish pulled it. Having dismantled a C02 activator and seeing that small 12mm bolt securing it to the float cloth material, I think when a fish speed up the C02 activator will suffer. However due to the placement of the C02 as in Carter design is behind the "drag" zone, I hope the activator will not not get rip off.
 

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
72
0
Here is the float close up.
Notice the size reference. The ceramic floor is 1 feet per block, thus the float is about 50 cm in diameter.
 

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
72
0
This is the so called parachute shape of the float, I sure hope it proves to be a drag enough to tire the fish. If let say I get 20-30 pounds of drag from the parachute shape alone, it will be awesome. So far we been using float and rely on volume for floatation. This concept is almost similiar to uncle Jack Prodonovich tuna gun set up where he uses a sea anchor and a buoy on the surface.

The material is 420 denier. I think no other available spearfishing float on the market is that thick. I specified to Mr Carter that I want it to be able to withstand rubbing against rocks.

If this prove good, I will order some more and ask for 1000 denier which is classed as Ballistic Cloth. My friend who used to work in Dupont told me that 1000 is very very tough. The best I seen was my Sea Quest BCD material which is supposedly 840 denier.

IYA
 

Murat

Promethian
Jun 21, 2002
2,982
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rofl rofl What else to say ! ! ! GOOD LUCK ? ? ? Now i feel sorry for indonesian dogies:duh
 

ivan

looking for deeper water
Jan 26, 2002
1,503
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hi

Iya needs some credit for putting so much effort into everything, nice pics Iya :cool:

cheers
 

donmoore

New Member
Aug 19, 2002
958
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0
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Iya,
Nice float setup. How much volume and lift does it have?

The boat sinking is a long exciting and terrible story. I should not say too much about it, because there is probably going to be a lawsuit. The bottom line, is I did nothing wrong, and everything correct, even according to the coast guard to rescued us, and the boat ½ sunk. I can’t believe after all those years of pushing the limit in a 20’ boat and never having a serious probably, I finally upgrade to a full fledge offshore boat and it almost sank. I can now vouch for EPIRB’s. It and the friendly coast guard saved my ass.

Where do you intend to put the float: on you or the gun? Trying to decide what to use to pull the CO2 lever is difficult. I think 20 lbs could be enough to bend the think metal lever, but then again, I sure wouldn’t want something that broke before I activated. Always having to check to see if the breakaway line is in good condition is another concern.

I was think of a sleeve (probably that fit over the level and was pulled in a direction that it would slide off the activation level after pulling the level and punchering the CO2 cartridge end it. The line attached to the sleeve could be strong and attached to the main line so you would only need one line.

Please let keep inform how it works The anchoring (drag) idea is a good ome, buy I am a little concerned additional complexity of the straps going.

Good luck,
don
 

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
72
0
OK boys, let's hope all the best for the float........ must try to know how it will work.

Unfortunately I am rather tight up right now, might not be able to test till another 60 over days......but.....;)


Don,
God to hear you are OK. Those EPIRB especially 406mhz type is surely a must. What boat are you buying next ? Insurance OK ?

The float Jim said is 20 liters worth of air and that is about 44 pounds of lift if my calculation is correct.

In the mean time, I will dive with it like how you see the first photo. I will never attach it on me, I got BCD and gauges, it might get stuck on me, too dangerous. It will dangle some 30cm below the gun. Since I hover mid water 95% of the dive, I hope it won't get entangled to any rocks. Since the MT5 is big, I hope the float with 2 x 68 gram C02 will not upset very much of the balance. Since I place the float on the butt of the gun, it might even help to make the gun better balanced. I have to try it in actual use.

Initially I was thinking to secure the float with some sort of velcro strap which I will install on the gun's wing but it will mean one side of the gun will be heavy. So I think first test will be like the photo shown. More experience in its use should be able to educate me better in the long run.

Actually if I have water to test in, I can make a shaft ( 5/16" ) with only one wrap of mono line, shoot it with 3-4 bands at nothing and see if the left over energy of the shaft will pull the parachute float and activate the C02 pull cord. A big fish on the end of the shaft will be of similiar pull.

Next possible test will be to tie a 30-40# lead on my Ice Pick slip tip, sink it in 100 feet of water and pull the trigger without any bands. The lead will sink the shaft and will pull the parachute float fast enough and will activate the C02 activator, in my theory of course. If the float is filled with air by the C02, the parachute float will open up at about 35 feet depth because that's the float clip position at the reel line + shooting line + the extra 1 meter of Kevlar line.

Will see if I can do some early "actual" C02 pull test. Will let you know.

Thanks - IYA
 
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Shadowkiller

Digital Hunter
Jul 30, 2002
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Iya: How a length of PVC pipe mounted on the side of the gun that you can pack the parachute into? That would avoid tangles and drag from it flapping in the current.

And where do we have room for the sonar ?:D
 

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
72
0
Can't do that Shadow. When the C02 cartridges are installed, it is at an angle. 3" PVC pipe can't clear it. It so happened my Riffe utility float holder with its velcro allows good grip and can tear open when pulled hard. If you think of any better way to do it let me know, I too am still looking for one....:eek:

Thanks

IYA
 

donmoore

New Member
Aug 19, 2002
958
154
0
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Nice idea shadow with the pipe. Won’t work for Iya setup, but for a simple (non-parachute) float it would. The CO2 cartridge on mine was inline with the float when rolled up and the whole package would fit in a pipe.

Iya, great experimenting. I wrote the last message last night after I took a sleeping pill. I thought I was okay, but it was embarrassing to read it today. Not at all to be negative, because I love your experiments and achievements, but I can’t help wonder if there is one major flaw in your design.

It seems to me that the parachute principle needs ether something compressible to work in (air) or it has to let some of what it is catching out. In other words, to work properly it needs a hole in the middle (top when in a parachute shape). Otherwise the trapped water will make it like one big surface and it won’t be stable. I guess we will find out soon when you spear a big fish.

I hope I am wrong, because it is a very nifty design you have.
don
 
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Shadowkiller

Digital Hunter
Jul 30, 2002
1,272
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Don: You are dead on with the planning effect of the deployed chute. A hole in the top with a steel ring to prevent tearing should stop the chute from spinning and wrapping around the line.
 

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
72
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YEP, that hole thing is a bit worry for me too. I seen all sea anchors have holes in the middle. Anyway as long there is air in it I am hoping it will maintain the parachute shape and do some good. Will see what happened..... ha ha ha.
 

donmoore

New Member
Aug 19, 2002
958
154
0
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Didn't employ!

Iya,
I don’t know if you read my exchange with Sven, but my new carter float didn’t employ when I needed it. Afterwards I tried blowing it up with an aircompressor and it would barely inflate. I ended up taking the whole CO2 connection apart. Inside there is a tire valve. I cleaned it all up and put it back together and now it inflates like it should.

I would recommend putting an air compressor to the CO2 inlet of your floats and see if they easily inflate, before you need them in the water. The nozzle doesn’t have to be tight to the inlet. It should inflate easily and quickly just with the air blowing on it. The position of the lever that breaks the cap of the CO2 cartridge is not important either for this test.

Keep us informed how your floats work.
don
 

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
72
0
Hi Don,

I just posted the Carter float experience in Anderson rig diving post, just under your post. I LOVE IT !!!!!

Thanks, I will make sure I service those C02 activator very few months. So far my Riffe utility float works well because I fired them often to send my fishes to the boat while I stay underwater. Carter and Riffe use the same brand C02 activator.

Must be dirt on your C02 inflator mechnism, good thing you tell me.....:D
 

donmoore

New Member
Aug 19, 2002
958
154
0
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Iya,
Glad to hear its working well. Maybe I should have got a parchute one too.

I wonder how much breaking strength 3 strands of dental floss is? I am using 10lb-fishing line and it seems to work well. I have thought about pulling the activation lever just out far enough that a little PVC tube would fit over it and then tying the tube with the main line. That way the pulling on the tube would pull the lever, but the tube would slide off the lever when it was pulled. I think the lever can be pulled out a little without it breaking the CO2 seal. The advantage is you wouldn’t be reliant on the activation string breaking at the right time and you wouldn’t have to replace it ever time it was used.

My new freedive partner is really trying to get my big gun setup with a breakaway and float setup before we go to the SPARS (floater) rigs. I have used a float with him and it does have some advantages, but I get real tired of constant entanglement of the line around my body and snorkel. If the float system works, its much less hassle, plus having it connected directly to the gun gives reassurance of not losing the gun, since we mainly dive in depth that is beyond or freediving ability. When we arrive at a spot I always get at least one shot off and sometimes two, before he gets his float and line in place.

I probably will use a multiple float setup at the SPARS. I don’t think my single 68-gram, 50lbs, non-parachute, float will slow a yellow fin down enough for me to keep up with it.
don
 

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
72
0
Don,

I can't imagine how a yellow fin tuna will act when hit around a rig, I never shot a yellofin tuna.

However, I am sure if I hit a 20kg and above dog tooth tuna and not hit where vital, the Carter Parachute Float will work real hard. I can not yet allow the float to be on a breakaway mode, I still prefer to attach it to my reel for the time being. This way I can pull it up if it really sound deep and use my body and kicking as extra resistance.

This dog below is too small to out worked the float, I am sure a 40kg will look great dragging the float.

I think 3 strands of dental floss is about 10lbs at max. I like the fact that dental floss has no strectch.

The shape of the parachute float indeed helped extra water drag resistance. I can safely say that weight for weight , size for size and the actual air volume at 120 feet by the 2 x 86 gram C02 cartridge, makes this float one of the best performer. However by design it is more for me a scuba hunter instead for a freediver.

If any freediver wants to use this with a multiple floats set up, it being a second float may be good, its parachute shape will still make water drag for the fish regardless of depth.

Hope you land those yellowfins soon.:p
 
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