Climbing and Freediving?

[Simos]

I do a bit of climbing (mainly bouldering) and was wondering out of curiosity how this might affect my freediving (both positively and negatively).

So far, I'm guessing that in terms of muscles used in climbing, the main ones that will help with freediving (and particularly monofin) will be core muscles.

There's obviously some lactic accumulation associated with climbing too but as it's mainly in the forearms, I have no idea if this helps in any way.

Anyone know more?

PS I don't do any climbing at altitude - that would have really helped...

 

[Tony004]

I go bouldering all the time. I love it, but as far as it affects my freediving capabilities I am not positive. I would think that, especially with high intensity climbing, that the body would gain a stronger toleration of high CO2 concentrations. It might also make it more aerobically efficient, enhancing freediving performance over time. But on the other hand, I have heard it said somewhere that big-time freediving competitors avoid cardio exercise at least a week or two before a competition. But like I said, I am just speculating, not positive. Guess I would like to know more about it's affect on freediving as well.

 

[Simos]

Not too sure whether bouldering is mainly aerobic or anaerobic - I guess it's both.

I think in practical terms the effect for me is that I usually climb a day or two before freediving and my body doesn't have time to recover in time for freediving...

 

[Tony004]

I think in practical terms the effect for me is that I usually climb a day or two before freediving and my body doesn't have time to recover in time for freediving...

Yes, it certainly does take a lot out of you. Sure is fun though!

 

[Simos]

Yes - typical pattern for me is bouldering on a Saturday, yoga on Sunday (which usually leaves me with sore hamstrings etc) and Freediving on Tuesday. So by the time I get to Freediving day my back is usually still recovering and my legs (esp hamstrings) are really suffering.

Doesn't seem to make a big difference in my breath hold ability apart from feeling more tired in dynamic and also, if I do exercises where co2 builds up my legs cramp more easily

 

[mikeM]

I don't know how climbing affects freediving. I've been climbing for over 24 years (the last 15 years or somainly bouldering) and have started freediving a year ago.
Body tension is very imprortant when doing harder bouldering problems and I have to unlearn to not tighten the muscles which is the normal reaction in climbing when it gets harder but instead to relax the muscles in freediving.

 

[mishu1984]

make sure you strech your shoulders and neck before freediving. check out this DVD when you get a chance.

 

[Chris_C_NZ]

Given how I was a climber before a diver (a big fall put paid that that hobby) the anerobic threshold might be nice, but in reality I dont think there is much similarity between the physical work out.

HOWEVER, climbing and diving are very much mental games - it requires a calm nerve regardless of what you're thinking and what you're feeling, and in this respect both are similar.

 

[sanso]

I have done a bit of climbing some time ago and I find that the most important parallel is the state of mind that you enter when you're on a rock or in a dive. The state of mind that makes a good dive or a good climb is much the same.
Acutally, this is something that I have been telling to people who ask about freediving and scuba diving.

In my experience, Freediving is more like rock climbing than it is like scuba diving.

So the training you get is to a good part in your head, too.

 

[mikeM]

I'm not sure if the state of mind in climbing is the same as in freediving. It depends on the discipline and what every individual is looking for in a sport I guess. But as far as I can see is that the mental game is totally different in some disciplines of climbing. For example, for dangerous or explosive (boulder) problems you are or need to be totally psyched up.
For longer problems like routes I agree that it is nice to find a flow, but that counts for lots of sports (the flow theory by Csikszentmihalyi)

But having this said, FIM is by far the discipline I love the most in freediving. Maybe because the pulling motion on the rope reminds me of climbing ...

 

[Simos]

If you ever find yourself without a weight belt in a rocky coast, try climbing down by pulling on the rock (gloves definitely recommended and of course, mind the sealife if any!) - it's a lot of fun and with a 5mm suit there is enough buoyancy when shallow to almost feel like climbing. I haven't tried any heel hooks yet lol

 

[Davey Jones]

Me thinks:

Climbing = great strength to body weight = better performance in almost any sport

 

[Simos]

Me thinks:

Climbing = great strength to body weight = better performance in almost any sport

While I love climbing I'm not sure it helps for that many sports as some of the strength you develop in climbing is quite specific. Probably what's most useful is the core strength...

I can't really conclusively say that since I started climbing my freediving got any better but of course, before I used to climb I used to go to the pool instead of climbing so I am sure that explains it.

So in theory it should have helped but in practice, if I spent the time freediving instead of climbing it would have been better in terms of my freediving... Also I had back injuries from climbing that meant I couldn't do much for a while. :crutch

But hey-ho, climbing is awesome! :inlove

 

[mcspud]

If you are sore in the hamstrings after yoga, especially 2 days later then you are just plain weak. People will talk about a strength to weight ratio but it's not really relevant to this.

Your 'core muscles' are really designed to keep the spine rigid, especially under load. Spinal flexion/extension isn't their true function. The point of this is that getting stronger will help you in both bouldering and free diving.
Squats, deadlifts, etc.


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[Simos]

If you are sore in the hamstrings after yoga, especially 2 days later then you are just plain weak. People will talk about a strength to weight ratio but it's not really relevant to this.

Your 'core muscles' are really designed to keep the spine rigid, especially under load. Spinal flexion/extension isn't their true function. The point of this is that getting stronger will help you in both bouldering and free diving.
Squats, deadlifts, etc.

I hear you and agree with many of the points but not all - i think climbing (especially at high level) requires a significant amount of strength but without bulking up, which I think would be ideal for freediving. However, I don't think most of the muscles used are needed for freediving unless you are doing FIM.

I do have weak legs and inflexible hamstrings - but I wouldn't necessarily think that being stronger would prevent me from being sore after a yoga session (depends on yoga). I don't find the yoga poses challenging on the hamstrings because of lack of strength but because i don't have enough flexibility...

 

[mcspud]

It's not really possible to get stronger without getting bigger. There is a CNS component to strength obviously, but you just can't get stronger without increased mass...

For bouldering the main physiological adaptions would be (I'm guessing) increased forearm, brachialis (bicep) and lat development. Essentially the brachiallis and lats function is to close the elbow joint and adduct the shoulder (pulling mechanics). I'd guess that most boulderers have a very lean build with large forearms and a pronounced V in their backs; all adaptions to the mechanical stress they apply to their body.

Most modern day yoga is just stupid static holds in a variety of positions. Isometric training at awkward angles is questionably effective at anything


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[Simos]

It's not really possible to get stronger without getting bigger. There is a CNS component to strength obviously, but you just can't get stronger without increased mass...

For bouldering the main physiological adaptions would be (I'm guessing) increased forearm, brachialis (bicep) and lat development. Essentially the brachiallis and lats function is to close the elbow joint and adduct the shoulder (pulling mechanics). I'd guess that most boulderers have a very lean build with large forearms and a pronounced V in their backs; all adaptions to the mechanical stress they apply to their body.

Most modern day yoga is just stupid static holds in a variety of positions. Isometric training at awkward angles is questionably effective

1. For sure you can get stronger without getting big - apart from improving recruitment and so on, real world strength requires complex firing of different muscles. Working in the gym on exercises that hit big, 'vanity' muscles makes you much bigger than you need to be for many sports. Instead you can work on different types of exercise that will strengthen a lot of smaller muscles - sure, they'll have to get bigger but you won't end up having the mass of a body builder. Also, let's not forget that muscles are half the story, there are many other structure that need to be strengthened. In freediving you don't need a huge amount of strength in many of the usual big muscles eg pecs.

2. For bouldering I would say you need pretty much everything but mainly finger strength/grip and all the muscles needed to generate a big amount of body tension. Legs are very important, core muscles as well as very strong back/shoulder stabilisers. I wouldn't say biceps are as important as you'd think...

3. I don't really agree with yoga comments - in fact I think that yoga can be extremely challenging but obviously it depends how it's taught. As a kid I did gymnastics for a bit and many yoga poses exercises remind me of gymnastics and they need a lot of strength and flexibility (passive and active, which is important for sports like climbing). Of course it really depends on the type of yoga and the instructor, I've had rubbish, joke sessions with some instructors but also extremely good, challenging ones with others..

 

[mcspud]

Hey dude I think you are missing some stuff here:

CNS = Central Nervous System = Muscle Recruitment. There is a big CNS component to any movement, but it is fundamentally limited by the contractile strength of a muscle.

Body building was never mentioned; powerlifting will be better for you in every single way. You'll also be amazed at how flexible you become the stronger you get.

You talk about 'small' muscles: which ones? The reason that you have major muscle groups is that they are the foundation for all human biomechanics. Squatting heavy and deep will use essentially every muscle in your body in its anatomically correct manner. It will also make you more flexible and significantly stronger, will train your CNS dramatically, and will positively change your hormonal balance. It will strengthen not only muscle, but tendons, ligaments and bone. The penalty for this is increased mass. This is a biological fact: you CANNOT get stronger in any appreciable degree without increased mass!


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[Simos]

I am aware how muscles work etc - I of course agree on recruitment, mass and surface area of muscles and all that - they're all facts.

The simple point I was making is that 'strength' differs for each individual sport and you are often better off building the necessary strength needed for your sport by more specific training than powerlifting, bodybuilding etc. Eg why would you want to powerlift if you are building specific strength for climbing, you can build strength in the muscles needed without increasing the mass in others unecessarily.

Same thing might hold for climbing-freediving hence the reason I started this thread ie to get views on whether climbing could help freediving or whether it wouldn't or even it could be counter-productive.

On the point on flexibility: I had similar discussions in the past, I am no powerlifter so can't comment on claims that it gives you a lot of flexibility. While I don't dispute it because I don't know, noone has yet given me a satisfactory explanation. In most other sports you still need to stretch after exercising otherwise you might even actually end up making muscles shorter and lose flexibility (depends how you load the muscles I guess) - maybe powerlifting is an exception but I can't see why.

 

[Pote]

Hi, I'm climber. I've been climbing from my childhood and cca 5 years on university I was on national competitive level. Then I started with freediving but I never noticed any advantage. Possible benefit could be in FIM? Because arm muscles are trained a lot during climbing (aerobic but also anaerobic).