closed cell, worth it?

[jtkwest]

a buddy of mine had a friend iver who was singing the praises about closed cell wetsuits being so slick in the water, allowing much better movement in the water, is this true? is it worth it ? i live in warm water area, but in the winter we do wear 3mm suits, and i need a new one, so should i get one? the ones i see are all black, do they come camo?

 

[ILDiver]

Closed cell on the outside? Assuming this, the smoothskin neoprene suits are a little more "slippery" in the water, but they will cut easier without the nulon there to protect it. For the standard freediving on a line and such, it is a performance thing where the smooth skin will glide better.

There were some, maybe Elios, that had a painted smoothskin suit. Not really the traditional camo. The smooth outter will shed water better at the surface and be warmer out of the water as well.

Just my opinion, you will be fine with the nylon outter and I don't think for spearing it would make a great difference. A comfortably snug fit suit is the most important thing. If it's baggy, you will have drag.

 

[settingsteel]

I agree^^^ better nylon outside for the slight difference it makes the abrasion resistance of the tough nylon outer wins hands down...on the other hand open cell inner although a bitch to put on (unless you apply conditioner) keeps you much warmer...look into austins diveshop I think they were running a crazy sale on some elios

 

[strangelove]

I agree too, one of my friends had an elios suit (smooth skin), he was really carefull but still manage to tear the thing in half while removing, may be good for the pros but not for the average guy. My two cents.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

Get open cell for the inside for warmth, but nylon on the outside for durability.

 

[spaghetti]

And here's one more vote for nylon outside/open cell inside, for all the aforementioned reasons.
As for smoothskin allowing better movement in water that's true, but now consider that the new improved nylon coatings now used by most manufacturers (called ultrastretch, superstretch, ultraspan et cetera depending on different brands) are also very good for that purpose because, as the name suggests, they're very elastic and stretchy, allowing fluid and easy movements.
My jackets are open cell inside/superstretch nylon outside, and they're GREAT!

 

[salibandy]

I agree too, one of my friends had an elios suit (smooth skin), he was really carefull but still manage to tear the thing in half while removing, may be good for the pros but not for the average guy. My two cents.

Not all smoothskin suits are as delicate as your friend's. I have a Heiwa smoothskin and it's indestructable.

 

[settingsteel]

I have a Heiwa smoothskin and it's indestructable

never heard of a heiwa...do you have a link?

 

[spaghetti]

Steel, Heiwa is a japanese neoprene manufacturer, not a brand of wetsuits.
You can get a suit made of Heiwa neoprene and tailored by Elios, Polosub, Teknoblu et cetera et cetera. The wetsuit tailors just buy sheets of neoprene from Heiwa, and them use it to create their own suit models.
There are also many types of Heiwa neoprene: Heiwa Sk, Heiwa Aws and many more, what changes is the density of neoprene cells......
These things will drive us all mad some day!

 

[salibandy]

Steel, Heiwa is a japanese neoprene manufacturer, not a brand of wetsuits.
You can get a suit made of Heiwa neoprene and tailored by Elios, Polosub, Teknoblu et cetera et cetera. The wetsuit tailors just buy sheets of neoprene from Heiwa, and them use it to create their own suit models.
There are also many types of Heiwa neoprene: Heiwa Sk, Heiwa Aws and many more, what changes is the density of neoprene cells......
These things will drive us all mad some day!

What he said.

 

[spaghetti]

What he said.

That we'll go mad some day? Well the Lord talked to me and said the day has come!

 

[salibandy]

I think my day came a long time ago. I'm glad to see others coming up to my level of (in)sanity.:inlove

 

[strangelove]

You guys know your rubber !

One more input, I would avoid the thermic filling, I always get red bumps on my skin after wearing my thermic suit, based on what I've read in this forum that filling does not improve the insulation, ,much better getting an Open Cell without the filling.

 

[settingsteel]

TY Spago...is that like the yoko'something from japan?

 

[trux]

TY Spago...is that like the yoko'something from japan?

Here you are mistaking with Yoko Ono. Well, sometimes she can be pretty kinky, and I bet she made some performances with neoprene or rubber too, but otherwise she does not bear too many similarities to Heiwa. It is rather Yamamoto, which is another brand of neoprene. Usually it is considered superior, because of its elasticity, but Heiwa has advantages too - less compressible, and more resistant. However, in both brands, there are many qualities, so this categorization may not be always exact.

 

[Fondueset]

What I've heard is that yamamoto is very elastic, very comfortable, but gets stretched out quickly and wears out quickly. I have two smoothskin suits with camo - well, actually three if you count just a top. One is 5 mil - total suit - elios blue pelagos camo, one is 3 mil - same but sent by mistake when I ordered five and elios said keep it. Then I have a 6 mil top which is green pelagos camo - which is very effective i these waters. The 6 mil has been quite durable - the 5 mil also seems quite durable. The 3 mil is very stretchy and easy to put on - but I am extra careful with lube. The suits are much warmer in air than nylon out - but unless you are using them in competition, or diving in cold, or just dig the ultra-groovy elios camo, nylon out is a better investment.

Here I am in my glorious blue pelagos smooth out/open in 5 mil suit diving in 38F water in very early spring. (my monofin technique has improved since then )

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CyMz-vjuHI]YouTube - May in West Grand Traverse Bay[/ame]

 

[settingsteel]

thx for clarifying!

 

[jtkwest]

ok , question: when you say open cell inside, with nylon on outside, how do i know what the composition of the outside of the suit is? the dive shops here do not have ANY high performance or camo suits here and mostly the employees dont know much about their stuff, is that just "standard issue? or do i have to look for something specific? my oneal 3/2/1 seems to be just neoprene, inside and out, with elbow and knee patches out of thin rubber. on the "blue water hunters" website, they have a bunch of cool suits. with yamamoto rubber. one in particular is 2mm reversible, with blue camo 1 side and green camo other side" perfect for key west, pretty much, they are all around 350$, so i wanna make sure i get a nice one

 

[EEZerik]

I've had Heiwa but it wasn't as pliable or stretchy as yamamoto 38 even, let alone Yamamoto 45. Do you know what grade of Heiwa you were using?

Cheers,

Erik

 

[Bill]

'..Heiwa but it wasn't as pliable or stretchy as..'
Me too but Heiwa medium density, even in 3mm, is just about bullet proof and after 200 dive days it still has almost the same buoyancy as new.