CMAS is killing U/W sports

[SanSan]

I was waiting for some time now for somebody to bring up this topic as I'm sure that many of you are well avare of and now I decided to put it up myself.

Here what it is about. First you can go wisit the CMAS website ( http://www.cmas2000.org/index.asp ) and take a look at the bottom of the news with the date of 21st december with headings:
Attendance to non CMAS competitions and
Affiliation to non CMAS organisations

They also sent this in writing to most of the national associations, that are now banning clubs and individuals participatin in competitions not organized by CMAS.

I have to tell you its not a small problem. You can read some more in this article: http://www.h2oteam.com/index.php?menu_item=aostali

Basicly it is a big step back. We were organizing a competition in finn swimming for some years now and had over 300 competitiors on the competition. This year there are not even 50 registered till now and the competition is next weekend.

I'm also organizing a AIDA feediving competition in march and although there are not so may problemes quite a few competitiors have already redrawn from the competiton.

What to do? CMAS is using terror. He is prohibiting. Can he do that? Are there any lawyers here that could give an insight on this? Would it bring sometnihg if we did a petition and send it to some committee for human rights or the OC? Any ideas?

 

[DeepThought]

I agree that those are evil fascist rules. I think the best action would be that all athletes would choose the other organizations till CMAS would result to a more enlightent view of life.
I don't know if it is legal or not and was wondering as well. Although the news item might be new the rules aren't. There has been a thread about that before, don't remember the title, maybe a search on CMAS/AIDA/BANNING would bring it up if you're interested.

 

[Veronika]

Hi Sandi,

I completely agree with you. I like CMAS when it comes down to SCUBA education and training, but as soon as it is about non-compressed breathing gasses stuff (Orienteering, Finswimming, Apnea, whatever) I find them highly counterproductive and narrow-minded.
Regarding freediving the point is that - form my personal point of view and my experiences - they do not just ignore what non-CMAS freedivers are doing but for them we are people practising a highly unsafe sport that has to be banned, and second class sportspeople. Theirs is the only way. For me, this is not only un-sportsmanlike, but plain bad behavior.
Luckily there are very tolerant people as well, but especially some of the higher ranking CMAS ones of some countries seem to be proponents of actively spreading the idea that non-CMAS freediving or freediving altogether should be banned. That of course doesn't make life easier for us.
I find this a pretty annoying and frustrating situation. Yet the point is that you can't do much about it. They simply have too much influence.

Just my very subjective point of view. Needn't be true for everyone and everywhere.

Veronika

 

[naiad]

I have never heard of something like that before - banning people from competing in non-CMAS events! Might not even be legal. I agree that athletes should choose other organisations.

Lucia

 

[fpernett]

I totally agree with all of you. This is against the free association and against the human being right to choose.
I think that this banning politic are due to AIDA. They never believe AIDA will grow in the way it did. And now they want to take the control back. As you have mentioned, some high ranking CMAS directives are against deep freediving, but I know that people from Spain is trying to make Constant weight an official discipline again.
I think the solution must come from athletes and federations. If the athletes keep attending AIDA competitions despite the banning, and the Federations (which is more difficult) keep association with AIDA International, CMAS has to reconsider that awful position.
I think the most difficult part is that country federations doesn't obey the banning because of the other sport disciplines they have. There are many more rugby players and fin swimmers than freedivers (at least in my country).
And that takes me to an old question made to many people. Why CMAS controls so many sports?. There is no World Overwater Federation that controls football, basketball, athletism, etc. Underwater activities are so different that everyone should have it's own federation. Why can't be created a World Freediving Federation, directed by freedivers and forget about CMAS?. Why AIDA International can't be this World Federation?

 

[spaghetti]

I understand what you say, but would you accept another man in bed with your wife? Cmas was (and is still) the only world uw federation recognized by the olympic commitee. Then came the Aida, setting rules of its own, world records of its own, and world champions of its own. I think Aida should expect a reaction like this from Cmas, right or wrong...
IMHO, CMAS is unefficient, elephantiac, old-minded, bureacratic organization, but it's still the official Commitee. Founding a new federation is making even more confusion about freediving. Moreoevr, IMHO, Aida makes things too easy (see constant for example).
Hope they'll find an agreement, but by now, the Aida is just the man that creeps in the bed of Cmas's wife...And Cmas say: "choose, me or him"

 

[Veronika]

Might well be, but this behavior is childish. Even my 3 year old nephew doesn't destroy the sandcastles of kids he envies any more.
It's about freedom of choice for me, about live and let live and what CMAS does to me personally, restricting my freedom, by acting the way it is.
Where I live CMAS is completely against competitive freediving of any form. A while ago, I wanted to start monofin swimming as addition to freediving and thus contacted a finswimming club. I wrote an e-mail and communication was fine - until the moment they seemingly found out that I am a freediver. Never heard from them again. I wrote several e-mails to several contact persons. They didn't even have the guts to tell me that they do not want to have anything to do with a freediver.
Stuff like that really makes me go :vangry :ko .

 

[SanSan]

I think AIDA is very much going the right way. If it wheren't then there woulndt be so many athlets choosing AIDA competitions and supporting them. Cmas doens't do anything for freediving. The last european chanpionship didn't take place because there where only 2 countries attending. Just ask why. Because the athlets don't like the way cmas is taking feediving. And shortly after this cmas comes out with this banning rules.

I think cmas thinks we are here because of them but actualy it should be the other way around.

The main problem i see is exactly because Cmas i the only asociation recognized by the OC and because it has so many sports under they can efectively terrorize the athlets. I think the worst is in finnswimming.
And now that they are banning whole clubs and so on.. People are starting to fear them. As i said i got a few redraws from the competition stating that local clubs wont finance non cmas competitions any more and that attending non cmas competition will result in club banning. :rcard :rcard :rcard :rcard

And this should be a sport organization?

I personaly wouldn't mind competing under cmas a year back if they had the intention to do something for the sport, but they don't and what they are doing now is ony ?&%$$%#/$%"$&!!!

 

[DeepThought]

So the olympic commitee is the governing ruler of all sprots on earth and if they sign with one organization those sports BELONG to this organization? ESPECIALLY when those sports are not even welcomed in the olympics?
I disagree with their right to this perspective (not that I'm saying that spaghetti thinks it's justified).
And if CMAS doesn't aknowledge constant weight, why do they care if people are doing it? they claim the underwater world belongs to them? if I will invent tomorrow an underwater neopren sweater knitting sport, would thye ban all of my atheltes from CMAS? I doubt.
This is all agressive politics aimed at AIDA for offering a better alternative. I wanna see them ban itallians for participating in Apnea Acadamy competitions if they are that righteous in their cause, no way all those Italians will abandon Umberto for swimming in a cube, blacking out and spitting blood.

I think this should end one day with a lawsuit.

 

[spaghetti]

Deepthought, I am NOT on the side of Cmas. Cmas is a major shame, Cmas even failed to bring freediving into the olympics, so they're ridiculous in claiming that they are an Olympic organization.
But do you honestly think that Aida will succeed to bring freediving to the Olympics? That a private organization will convince the Olympic Comitee to accept freediving in the Games? Oh, come on...
You say about Umberto Pelizzari's Apnea Academy: that's a great thing, trying to give freediving the dignity it was loosing, and they do an excellent job because their main concern is teaching, not records. They're affiliated to the official federation and apply federation's rules not because they like it, but because, right or wrong, they're trying to change the "establishment" from inside. Wars and fragmentation will not change anything in better.
Just my two cents

 

[DeepThought]

Hey Spag, I was saying I wasn't thinking you're taking their side.

I think people give a damn about the olympics a little too much. It's just a nice dream so far. I wouldn't wanna be at the olympics at the price of not diving any more constant ballast (if I was into competitive freediving that is).

What I was saying is that they banned people from going to other organizations and they are against constant ballast yet they will not ban people for going to apnea academy competitions (that have constant ballast as well) because they know they can't pull it off because one of their greatest bases of power - Italy is pretty much full of Umberto devotees (not that there's anything wrong with being one. ).
Or in other words, they are hypocrites.

 

[fpernett]

We are just making circles.
The bad thing about this is the banning politics. I'm member of AIDA Colombia executive committee and also from the Apnea National Commission of Colombian Federation of Underwater Activities. So I now both sides.
The main reason to be with the federation is political support, because with them we are in "the right side". For sponsorship is better to be with the government. But AIDA has taken in account the freedivers philosophy, and the rules and competitions have evolved into a better sport.
CMAS don't accept Constant Weight. But we DO constant weight.
Somebody has to rule this competitions. And that still is my question. Why CMAS has to be long-life the maximal authority?. If they don't take care of what athletes want, why another world federation can't take their place?.
I know that in my country, I'll have to make a choice, because the Federation will not accept that I'm part of AIDA too. I will choose AIDA.

 

[cebaztian]

CMAS is not taking away your right to choose.

They are asking YOU Choose.

As long as we have a scenario where 80-90% of the (lets say) top 50 freedivers of the world choose the Aida world cup, we are alright, I would say.

The challenge for Aida is to keept the respect of the top freedivers of the world.

The more people that chose AIDA the stronger it will be the day all parties sit down at the negotiation tables - because I think thats inevitable some merging will have to be done. Unfortunately this is also a conflict between PERSONS, I think. Pride and prestige can get in the way.

I have a feeling that Aida president B.Strömberg is smooth enough to bridge the gap (he is also residing in Italy right now where I guess CMAS has there HQ). But maybe it is not enough with diplomacy. If one party doesnt want to come halfway, there is not much to do.

So its up to us competitors to choose.

Sebastian
Sweden

 

[fpernett]

Well, things start to happen.
Carlos Coste has resigned to the Venezuelan Federation. He will continue with AIDA

http://www.sportalsub.net/portal/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=126&Itemid=2

 

[pehtran]

People who follow the topic will appreciate his decision. The freediving comunity will understand the magnitude of his sacrifice. Well done, Carlos! Viva, Aida!

 

[SanSan]

It must have been a hard decision for Carlos but I think it was the right one. I don't think that CMAS has a chance to compete against AIDA on the long run but still he can cause much trouble and bad karma.
Hope others will follow Carslos. Thanks for showing us the way.

Just remember no competitors no CMAS .

 

[donmoore]

In the thread on this a few years ago, it was one of the few times I really blew my cool on db.

This is from an e-mail of Carol Rose, president of the Underwater Society of America (the U.S. CMAS organization that hosts the U.S. Spearfishing Championships and Underwater Hockey in the U.S.).

“CMAS was very clear at their meeting in late November. If athletes dive a competition which CMAS already holds, the athletes may be barred, and the country will certainly 'hear' about it. If the competition offers an event, discipline, whatever that CMAS does NOT offer, then, grudgingly, OK.”

I can’t read the languages in the previous links, but maybe CMAS has pulled their heads out enough to realize they are really making a lot of people mad! As far as Carol Rose’s statement, the only discipline that both AIDA and CMAS used to do was dynamics. Their doctor believed depth disciplines were dangerous for a divers health, and they thought static was too boring for spectators.

This year I plan doing both the U.S. Nationals Spearfishing tournament and an AIDA competition. If they want to kick me out of CMAS, so be it.
don

 

[jome]

They have precisely as much power as people give them. I applaud Carlos' choice! That's the spirit.

Luckily it's not a problem for me...All I ever got from CMAS was a scuba license and I would not be heart broken even if they somehow could revoke it...I guess it could be a problem for finswimmers and uw rugby players in our country (is UW rugby a CMAS discipline?), who would also like to compete in freediving...

An organization should realize, that when they have to bully people into sticking with them, they have seriously derailed. The only way you can compete in a free society is by making your offerings appealing enough that people will WANT to stick with you. Otherwise someone else is just going to move into that business. Just look at all the record labels...At least some of them are coming around and noticing that someone invented a little thing called "the Internet" and it's not an evil invention from Satan, but a great tool and a lot of money can be made from it.

 

[Absolute]

So mabey AIDA should step up to the plate for the finswimmers and under water hockey and rugby athletes. Then everyone would migrate to AIDA and stupid CMAS would go away.

 

[donmoore]

So mabey AIDA should step up to the plate for the finswimmers and under water hockey and rugby athletes. Then everyone would migrate to AIDA and stupid CMAS would go away.

Good idea, and most of all spearfishing! A lot of people seem to forget that spearfishermen out numbers pure freedivers. I would guess about 5 to 1. Many of the best competitive freedivers started as spearfisherman looking for ways to improve their time and depth for better spearing opportunities.

Divers are tired of the politics. AIDA has proven themselves, in my mind, to be a better organization. Now they just need to realize there is more to apnea diving then pure depth, distance, and time.
don