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co2 & o2 Tables combined

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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gregdonohue

Member
Oct 21, 2013
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Hi I was wondering if you can merge the two tables together .
Example start with 1min hold /3.5mins rest then increase hold by 30seconds and decrease rest by 30seconds so at the end your on a 30 rest with a 4min hold.
Just wondering if this would be beneficial or not .
looking fwd to your replies .
Greg
 
Sounds tough.

Any breathhold training is good training.
If it keeps you interested / motivated... then it's gold for you!

If you can do it... Go for it!!
 
Hi I was wondering if you can merge the two tables together .
Example start with 1min hold /3.5mins rest then increase hold by 30seconds and decrease rest by 30seconds so at the end your on a 30 rest with a 4min hold.
Just wondering if this would be beneficial or not .
looking fwd to your replies .
Greg

Sounds VERY easy and boring in the beginning, and fairly difficult at the end.

To say if it is good or not would depend on the purpose: That kind of table could fx be good for relaxation training, taking that relaxed feeling into some hard training. Taking app. 35 min. a bit long compared to the relative few hard breathholds, but relaxation training can take time...

The thing is: The last beathold will be a very long + very high co2 breathhold (again depending on your training.

As I see it, theres a reason people do co2-tables, and that is to train tolerance relatively short blocks of very high co2. Mentally you can do it because of the short blocks of breathhold (app. 50% of max), and also you save time compared to a O2-table.

I doubt that you would get much co2-tolerance training from the 30+ min. this way...

As I see it you might as well do some increasingly long breathholds (O2-table) and get the benefit of low O2-tolerance/training also... Because if you can do 3½ hold -> 30 sec. rest -> 4 min. hold at the end, you must be somewhere between 5-7 min. max attampt capacity I would guess (unless you have a high co2 tolerance, but a low O2 capacity).

In short: I can't really say if it would be good training or not, but the way the difficulty escalates seems sudden and steep at the end.

However I'd love to hear from you if you try it and get back.
 
Thanks .I have a max of 5.52 .
I am a terrible free diver .Max 16m and almost need to breathe or get the urge to after about 15seconds .I am training co2 and o2 but was given this to try I did complete it .like you said easy start hard finish .
I do a 8 round co2 table holding for 3mins .The first one is very hard then the rest are ok .I am training now 5 times a week static .When I get back from offshore I will get some water time.
My best dynamic is 50m with fins and 40m no fins .
Cheers Greg.
 
5.52 STA is very impressive, especialy compared to your other PB's.

Sounds like you have a good and strong divereponse... A bit like myself. I think relaxation training might actually be good for you.

We have similar STA PB's (5:48), but it's always beeen easy to me to dive deep. DYN not so easy, but doing ok.

Perhaps you should make a new thread about that huge gap between your performances in STA and depth (so you keep this on the tables-topic)... Unless ofcourse it's because of lack of training the disciplines :)
 
Hi Greg, interesting and possibly educational question, something a knowledgeable freedive instructor should know.

I think the answer lies in your trainings objective, what is your goal?
My guess (derived from further posts) is: - a longer breath-hold ability.

Then my question is, how would you reach that goal? Answer: practice, or - better - training.
What is training? - A structured number of exercises.
What exercises do you need?
This depends on your current skill and level of tolerances.

The CO2 and O2 tables are designed for training the two different aspects of breath-holding (more) separately.
Now you wish to combine them? Why? Presumably to safe training time, and or explore something new.

I see great benefit in splitting up performances in components, and training those components separately because it allows me to focus and find improvements quicker without sharing much attention to the other parts of the whole, therefore learning faster, which is more measurable and more fun.

CO2:

In the interest of time I've changed my CO2 schedule to something like this:

Normal static relaxation prep, including warming up muscles, gentle stretching, and bringing my metabolism down.
3' hold,​
1'rest.
3' hold,​
45' rest.
3' hold,​
30' rest.
3' hold,​
15' rest./ 2 breaths.
3' hold,​
15' rest./ 2 breaths.
3' hold,​
15' rest./ 2 breaths.
3' hold,​
15' rest./ 2 breaths.
3' hold,​
15' rest./ 2 breaths.

24min hold - 3:30 rest.

You see I've cut out a lot of in-between rest time, and quickly arrive at just taking 2 breaths. This ensures that I have more time in 'training range', the time when CO2 levels are high and need to learn to deal with them.
During and afterwards this gives me a nice CO2 buzz, which to me make breath-holding enjoyable.

O2.
For O2 training I like to the very challenging Herbert Nitch 'Crazy Table'.

Same prep as the CO2.
Exhale fully, dive.
Hold as long as you can, but stay away from samba's off cause! - so I estimate to 85% effort. Then briefly surface and inhale 1 mouth-full of air dive again to 85%.
Repeat until you lungs are full.

With practice you're total dive time should be around to your maximum full breath-hold time.
The beauty of this exercise is that you'll experience a steep O2 challenge in short blocks of time, making it feel like the last 1 minute of a normal maximum hold repeatedly. With this repetition you have more time to get used to and find your way around that most challenging part of the maximum breath-hold. So that your 6-7 minute exercise may create 6-7 times that 'last minute' experience.

Levels of training.
These steep tables are not suited for beginners: men below the 5' maximum breath-hold level, and women below the 4'. This is because beginners can learn more from having a easier and more gradual increase in difficulty, allowing them more recovery and time at the medium high CO2 and O2 levels.
But if you have an able dedicated dive buddy and coach you can try them for sure, maybe with some base time adaptations, like taking 2' instead of 3' for the CO2 schedule. Another warning, the 'Crazy Table' starts and feels like an empty lung dive. Those put extra tension on the breathing system when contractions appear. Also diving empty lungs yield less response time between doing fine and needing to get O2. Because of this I have my hands on the edge of the pool, and my head floating on the surface, so I can nearly instantly take that mouth of air when I feel I need it.

To novices I really want to stress that Freeving in water should be done with a dedicated and educated in freediving safety buddy.
Empty lung + hyperventilation is a very easy way to loose consciousness and control of your mind and body. With nobody next to you checking and observing you'll sink and be dead in minutes. With a pool staff unaware, shocked, angry, fired, sued; underwater swimming is very probable to be forbidding after you drown! And besides the immense grief to your parents and loved ones this little understood sport will suffer much from a very bad image. So please think things through and be able to respond (responsible) to questions about safety.
 
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Thanks for the input guy's and advice .When I get a chance I will see how my free diving is going relative to the dry training I'm putting in .Also see if my dynamic improves also .I have done the 30sec+- a few times also jumped up my co2 to 3 mins from 2 as my best was 4.43 previous .I also did my pb after a o2 table upto 4mins then had a 5 min break and went for it after that .
Is this good practice as I seem to get better at the end of training .Not very good at the start.
I also think I need relaxing training too.
Cheers Greg.
 
Greg from you apparent big difference between static and deep diving/dynamic, I think you also benefit from developing a skill to quickly put your mind and body in 'dive-mode'. What works for me is to slowly breath through my nose, feeling my inner nose hairs vibrating as the cool air passes by. I've created a strong association, and within a few breaths my bodies metabolism goes down; ready to dive.

Then also the way we dive is important. In my view one cannot gain more relaxation once the dive start, only maintain and keep it. So the start is particular important as aggressive start will raise my metabolism and HR. Weighting, good technique, thin suit, steady rhythm all help to keep my metabolism down.
 
Kars, that's great info, I like the concept of (C)O2 tables that don't take hours and hours of time but still do the job. But I'm a beginner. And jugdging by your definition of beginners, I'm going to be one for quite some time. ;-) I only did an AIDA 1* initiation resulting in a static PB of 2:45 so far, so I'll definitely have to alter the numbers (expecially the breathhold!) in your CO2 table... Any suggestions? The 15 seconds of breathing (two breaths) in the second half of the table seem particularly daunting to me!
 
Well 3+ is beyond beginners for sure, 5+ is beyond average in my view.

You do not have to alter your numbers ;) but I think you can :D

If you believe 2 breaths is daunting, do a flat table, start with an easy base time of 45 seconds, 15 sec, and repeat.
You can be secure you're feeling only CO2 build up. One trick you can do to do this is the exhale during the last 10 or so seconds of the breath-hold, so when surfacing you can start inhaling air immediately upon surfacing.

For you current level, I think an 1' or 1'15" or 1'30" CO2 table will be around right.
A good coaching buddy will be very helpful to help to calm your nerves, and help to relax your body.

Philippe West (lives nearby Gent) maybe a good buddy for you, a very nice skilled guy.
 
... I'm a bit late to reply. Happy new year! :)
Thanks for the clarification, Kars. I tried it with the 1'30". Got to 7 holds. Couldn't make the last one. Too hard. Will have to do 1'15" for now. :)

I already had (as mentioned) a freediving initiation. That was with Felice Mastroleo (+ Jeroen Van Haudt and Inge Verbruggen) and I have the opportunity to do an AIDA 2* with Felice. I can also train in Oostende with fellow freedivers.

Cheers!
 
1'30 and nearly 7x is looking nicely :)

Felice is also a very nice guy, I've met him several times at some great hospitality Belgian competitions, you can say hi to him! :)
I also know Jeroen, and probably Inge as well :)
 
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