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CO2 Table - question on vent times

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B

Baltazar

Member
Feb 8, 2013
4
1
13
Hi there, I had a 5-month break from any training and decided to do some dry statics. Could you guys tell me if my table is OK?

I'm a beginner and my pb is only 04:31. Anyway, the table looks like this:

Breath up - 2 min. | Hold 02:15
Vent 70 sec. | Hold 2:15
Vent 60 sec. | Hold 2:15
Vent 50 sec. | Hold 2:15
Vent 40 sec. | Hold 2:15
Vent 30 sec. | Hold 2:15
Vent 20 sec. | Hold 2:15
Vent 20 sec. | Hold 2:15

I don't HV (100% sure, no cheating) and the holds seem fine, since I get contractions a bit earlier on the last two "cycles".

How can I develop this table once I improve? I can add some seconds to holds, that's for sure, but what should I change on the vent part? Would doing 60-50-40-30-20-20-20 be a good idea?

Thanks!
Jacob
 
Yep that would work.

Do you train recovery breaths on tables? Depending on your pre- and post-hold breathing tecnique you might be able to get it down to 10" vent. (Especially with no HV).

Remember to train for relaxation and more relaxation!

Enjoy
 
Thanks for a fast response.

Should recovery breaths on tables be the same as the recovery ones after the dive? (quick inhale, passive exhale?)
I stick to breathing as calm and as least as possible not to ged rid of CO2.
What should I change?
 
Hi Baltazar!

You don't have to hear on my advice I am no profi, but I find these CO_2 tables ineffective.
When I start my training again I will change the CO_2 training in the following way
(xxx is your starting time - try 1 minute first that should always work)

relax, no breathe up and:
full inhale - hold and exhale (5-10sec) xxx
full inhale - hold and exhale (5-10sec) xxx
full inhale - hold and exhale (5-10sec) xxx
...... repeat >=3 times and do the last one ......
full inhale - hold twice xxx + xxx - or as long as you can.

Do 3 (or more) blocks with xxx, xxx + 10sec, xxx + 15sec or else, but you have to
train weekly to really improve. It takes some time, but after a few weeks you will
see that it does a lot. You will:

-learn to relax during one big breath in between
-learn to exhale fully even during contractions
-learn to relax even when there a few contractions left from former breathhold

If you get above 1m45s as your xxx the CO_2 narcosis is possible - strange feeling.

If you get to xxx = 2min30s you may be able to cross the "contraction barrier", but
its hard and only useful when you have enough O_2 left of course, that means more
training for O_2 -relaxing, ... I have never come so far.

I think this CO_2 training is (much) more effective, than
measuring ventilation seconds and shorten from 20sec and...

M.
 
Reactions: Ash Wilkinson and Apneaddict
I agree with the previous, I have the impression that the build-up of CO2 should be slow and gradual as in the actual dive, but you don't want to vent out all of it with too much ventilation between the holds.

As for O2, I think even a single breath will replenish your O2 level so actually the single breath method sounds smart. Just keep the holds reasonable, otherwise you'll hit a wall really quick.

I have been doing 1minute holds with the 1 breath system, so far around 7 rounds it gets pretty tough as you're CO2 levels are quite high and it's hard to relax with all the contractions going on.

Another system is to just breath REALLY slowly, in and out, I'm now experimenting with this as it seems to be working. The CO2 builds slowly but surely.

 
Reactions: Ash Wilkinson
It takes time until you know how much a training is worth for you - may differ from others...
This time you did 1 (?) training unit with 7 holds, next you do 1 training with 8 holds and you will
find the last breathold managable or you find that you can do 10 holds - then start 1min5s - you will
see that even these 5secs make a difference. I found this training late and I would replace the
usual CO_2 tables with it in every case - if 1min is too much, start with xxx=45s or 30s - the
improvement is slow, but goes further and further...

-first contractions will not disturb you so much than before
-you can feel the CO_2, but contractions come later - strange
-you will also improve the breathe out, breath in + relax ability
... it takes months ...
-starting contractions feel a kind of ... pleasant ??? at a - certain training point (xxx=1m45s for me)
-you will be able to passout doing O_2 tables ending close to 7min - then I had to do other things...

The problem is that the hard-earned (don't try hard - just do regularly) success starts vanishing after
4/6 weeks without training or so ...

I can not train at the moment - no privacy, no good pool, a lot of stress...

Good luck!

M.

P.S.: Your last meal should be 2 1/2 better 3 hours ago - reason for early contractions... I guess you know.
 
Here's a little something to add to the information available: I don't have the full link at the moment, sorry.
Go to http://wefreedive.org/resources and in the training section you will find an article on co2 tables.
HTH
 
Reactions: Azrael3000
Thanks sanso!

Thanks for the link - I should have read a new article before training
I found the link:

http://wefreedive.org/resources/79-training/171-the-evolution-of-co2-training-tables

The best number of repetitions: 8 - Yes - I also found that!

I think that full breathing and CO_2-training is the best start in freediving,
but you need water for diving to stay tuned... a single public pool where
you get trouble "Two ranges! Are you crazy?" is too few

M.
 
You're welcome!
I don't think there is a 'best' number of dives in general. I chose 8 in the example because it is a relatively easy start into CO_2 tables.
Anecdotally, one of my students just recently did what I christened the Christmas Table:
30 seconds of contractions times 26 repetitions. - effective time with elevated CO_2 13 minutes.
 
Now I'm really crazy about trying these new methods...

-starting the watch when contractions start and xx sec

or

-counting always xx contractions

if I read it right - That's a good idea! So you can do

even more repetitions - 26 - Wow!

There is enough time to summer - lets see...

M.

P.S. - I saw a report on mine divers in the German army and
maybe I saw wrong, but the training was a kind of
"the dark side of apnea" - after the course the (remaining)
soldiers seem to agree with "never again" or
"only under heavy fire" - it seemed that knowledge about
freediving did not arrive there - the reportage wasn't that old.
 
I recommend not doing any timing yourself when doing tables, but having your buddy do that instead. - that way you just signal when you have your first contraction and can then focus on relaxation until your buddy gives you the 5 4 3 2 1
 
Self-timing mostly results in looking for:

Is the watch reset properly?
Did the watch start?
What time is it now? ... Really? ... And now?
...
The next round...

Eliminating all "external signals" - That's
really a good tip! It works for me - only some
confusion with "Counts as 1 or 2?"-contractions
(I guess you know these.) But all out of water...

Thanks again!

M.
 
More or less what Sanso said--get an app for your phone that has audible signals so you can concentrate on relaxing instead of watching a clock during your holds. For CO2 training one of the primary goals is to keep the CO2 level elevated (although it doesn't need to be unbearable) for an extended period.

If I don't have time to dive, I can maintain my CO2 tolerance with 15 - 20 minutes per dry session a couple times a week. (although I don't do any static CO2 tables whatsoever, only dynamic work) To make gains I have to either up the time I spend in high CO2, or increase frequency of training, or both. In my opinion, once you reach a point where you can do voluntary statics to the point of samba, your CO2 tolerance is high enough and further CO2 training isn't time well spent...
 
Commercial!

I recently added 'mean CO2' to my app Static Trainer (iOS and Android).
Mean CO2: select # of rounds and period. Hold breath, wait for contractions and start timer. Close your eyes, relax and concentrate. When timer runs out -> next round and so on. Super effective and hard.

The app also sports standard O2 and CO2 tables (all parameters completely modifiable), AIDA count down, loads of audio/voice settimgs and what not...

It costs money and there are also loads of free apps out there, but check it out - it ain't half bad

Cheers, Jesper
 
Reactions: leo999benz
 
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