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CO2 training revised

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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M

Marciano

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2013
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Hello, I have been freediving for some years now. I always had a problem with contractions, strong big early contractions. I can grind myself to a 5/6min. no warm up apnea, but for for recreational diving it is non acceptable.
I have developed relaxation and technique I can do some good performances, still I have to be extremely resilient my contractions don't have middle term, they are strong and they are persistent. My focus is to create safe way to deal with contractions and still be safe.

I would like to know which training and diet (I'm doing an alkaline diet at the moment) do you guys use for CO" training? Butekayo breathing? CO2 with only one breath between? Crazy table? FRC? Does someone had the same problem? which training worked in that case? training 3/4 times a week is enough?

Best regards

PS: I don't do any breath up or hyperventilation, only 3 or 2 big breaths before diving.
 
I've recently improved the time my contractions come with some changes to training. Please be aware this applies only to dry static and I down know what impact it may have on deep dives. So before my contractions were starting around 2:30, more less. I've introduced few changes to my dry training to make it more interesting and finally make some progress. I'm a guy with similar static range as yours - around 5-6 minutes.

I do one "crazy CO2" table a week. I do about 4-5 sets, 2 minutes each, one breath in-between.

I introduced empty statics to my training - I do them before my full lung statics. They were harsh on the beginning but are OK now. I tried to master the "empty contractions" I was getting, and in my opinion they are harder to deal with on empty lungs (I guess they have different source).

I started to breath up through my nose for a change, after some tips from book Breathology.

Now, I don't know which of these had the biggest impact as I introduced them the same week. I would say full static after empty one feels great (for me). My contraction now start around 3:15 - 3:30, getting into 5 minutes zone is now as easy as 4 minutes before.

I feel much better doing some warm up dives and after 2-3 of them contractions come late.

I've also realized your mind is also important. The less focused I was the faster contractions were. Even today if I don't try to keep my mind calm my contraction strike at 2 minutes range instead of 3:30.

Please be aware that I'm new to freediving so my advise my not have any quality (or be unsafe - hopefully it isn't).
 


If you do empty lung static before the diving reflex will not kick in much strengh in the next full lung static.

I use no warm-up static as mean to measure my performance. All the contraction times I said are for no warm-up aproach although even with many warm-ups they have more less the same tempo.

Appart from these statics it's all sea dives.
 
if you really want to see a difference, get off your couch, stop doing these static breathold "exercises" and just dive. Nothing will improve your diving more...then simply diving. If you want to do something more productive Learn how to preform the mouthfill technique (its a lot easier then it sounds), be properly weighted, keep your head in a neutral position when diving and DONT look at the bottom on your way down and youll notice a big difference in your bottom time.


BTW What is your current bottom time??
 

All that is already done, I only adressed the forum because this is very specific case.

And specific physiology/diet might be involded.

The purporse of this post is not to lecture, but to discover which methods works best;
is it long training in a low hypoxic/CO2 in the blood state (short apneas no interval), medium apneas no interval,
FRC thoughts and ideas, medical advice or diet change.
 
Marciano said:
If you do empty lung static before the diving reflex will not kick in much strengh in the next full lung static.
.
Click to expand...

So it will actually hurt my performance in the long run?

Sorry, I'm new and try to understand what you wrote, it's interesting. It means that after empty static my full static will be easier on the beginning but I will not get the full advantage of diving reflex?

Shame, I thought about making it part of my warm up...
 

No. It won't affect you in the long run.
Doing warmp-apneas won't harm the no-warm-up apneas.

But yes, you don't get the benefit of a full dive reflex. But let's be honest no-warm-up apneas are just to painful
in the first times, you don't have the CO2 resistance.

I got the impression that you see yourself has a non-gifted static diver.
But by your input I think you are gifted and better suited FRC diver (half to empty lungs).

There are lots of info here on this Topic. Learning phase is quite big though.

I'm just focusing on statics and contractions now, because I want to get ready for the good diving season.
Normally contractions are the most limiting factor. I can do lots of pre-dives and do crazy bottom times, but I would prefer to go safer
with more CO2, so normally I won't do it.

tell us more about your crazy table.
 

OK, got it, thanks.

Well my crazy static tables now consist of around 5 sets. Each set I hold breath for 2:00 (recently 2:15). In-between I take one full breath. Around 3rd set I'm high in CO2, 4th & 5th set is almost unbearable (for me that is). On the days when my mental stamina is better I continue with few (2, maybe 3) sets of shorter holds (around 1:00-1:30 minute each). I would say contractions are present after 20-30 seconds of these further sets.

I dislike this table so much I'm doing it only once a week now. It's great as it can be done relatively quickly, unlike majority of other tables. I would say they helped me, at least for my static.

As I said I'm relatively new to freediving and didn't go anywhere deep (only 20m-30m range).

I've done once a wet variation of crazy table, where breath-in between is limited to 1 second very quick breath. Whole exercise took about 1 hour which totaled in around 55-60 sets. After a while all the effort is fighting contractions which come just after few seconds of each set.
 
Just a few pointers:
  • Empty lung holds are a powerful tool to trigger a strong dive response.
  • When thinking about training, be sure to clearly differentiate between O₂ levels and CO₂ levels. While they are connected, the specifics of your training will determine what will happen to each during the exercise.
  • Realise that "no warm-up" just means that you don't do anything designed as a warm up. Experienced freedivers who have trained their dive response well will still experience a dive response; their dive responses will kick in when they anticipate the requirement; e.g. they prepare their kit near the water. The focus of prior training makes a big difference here. (Fun fact: It is possible to train yourself to consciously trigger your dive response any time - makes for fun infra red video of extremities.)
  • ... oh, and in comparisons, please use "too" instead of "to" to ease communication. The two are associated with different usage - it's almost too easy, isn't it? :friday
 
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