contractions

[monofin_diva]

hi all.

i want to thank stefan for creating the CO2 and O2 software.

i just recently found someone close to me on the forums here that is rather experienced, so hopefully i'll finally be able to train with someone more knowledgable than myself. however, if/when we ever get to dive i wanted to increase my breath holding a bit.

i can routinely do about 2 min (after little or no breathing up and rests etc) but i would like to break 3 min.

today i tried using the software and i must say i was rather pleased. although it wasn't as good as my personal best, it wasn't too far off. my PB is just under 3 min and today i made it to 2:35 before i needed a breath.

any tips on getting past the contractions? they don't scare me and they're not painful or anything, but once i get past the 2:10 or so mark i really start to notice them and before i know it i have to take a breath.

today i took an intro of 120sec

then i went for:

breath hold max 150 sec
increase hold time by 15 sec
initial rest 120 sec
decrease rest by 0 sec
8 loops.

i finished all 8 loops and i noticed sometimes i needed to breathe, but held it off then other times i went the whole time without a need to breathe or any contractions at all and i could have gone more..

i'm rather pleased as this was my first time just *trying* it out with the software. i even downloaded the software for my PDA so i can practice on the *go* when i'm bored.

any tips or techniques for getting through the contractions would be nice. i dont want to overtrain. i was thinking CO2 one day, a day off and then O2 the next day with 2 days off without anything other than apnea walking.

is this a decent schedule? i dont want to over or undertrain. oh, and i also get an annoying need to swallow every now and then about maybe 30 seconds or so before the contractions start.

thanks in advance

 

[Flojt]

hi all.

i want to thank stefan for creating the CO2 and O2 software.

i just recently found someone close to me on the forums here that is rather experienced, so hopefully i'll finally be able to train with someone more knowledgable than myself. however, if/when we ever get to dive i wanted to increase my breath holding a bit.

i can routinely do about 2 min (after little or no breathing up and rests etc) but i would like to break 3 min.

today i tried using the software and i must say i was rather pleased. although it wasn't as good as my personal best, it wasn't too far off. my PB is just under 3 min and today i made it to 2:35 before i needed a breath.

any tips on getting past the contractions? they don't scare me and they're not painful or anything, but once i get past the 2:10 or so mark i really start to notice them and before i know it i have to take a breath.

today i took an intro of 120sec

then i went for:

breath hold max 150 sec
increase hold time by 15 sec
initial rest 120 sec
decrease rest by 0 sec
8 loops.

i finished all 8 loops and i noticed sometimes i needed to breathe, but held it off then other times i went the whole time without a need to breathe or any contractions at all and i could have gone more..

i'm rather pleased as this was my first time just *trying* it out with the software. i even downloaded the software for my PDA so i can practice on the *go* when i'm bored.

any tips or techniques for getting through the contractions would be nice. i dont want to overtrain. i was thinking CO2 one day, a day off and then O2 the next day with 2 days off without anything other than apnea walking.

is this a decent schedule? i dont want to over or undertrain. oh, and i also get an annoying need to swallow every now and then about maybe 30 seconds or so before the contractions start.

thanks in advance

Sent you a pm, enjoy

 

[monofin_diva]

thanks for the email..

i just read it and i'm replying now.. you gave me a lot of good tips!

 

[Pinggene]

Please post for all to see.

Thanks,

Gene

 

[marginatus]

Yep, i'm curious too!

 

[monofin_diva]

i wanted to ask daniel first before i posted the email.. he said it's fine so here it is. basically he took each of my question that i made here and then he answered them so it's sort of long. but i feel a LOT of the tips he gave me would help a lot of us starting out and wanting to learn how to increase our time and get past the contractions.

here is the email:



Hi monofin-diva

Welcome to db, I thought I welcome you with pm and tell you little about how our team approach the contr and CO2.

Btw, wanna know more about me take a look over here when you got the time; www.freedivingteam.com/team_daniel

any tips on getting past the contractions?

Well my first thought is have your timed them, thats a good way to get "past" them, the will not go a way but your learn how to tolerate them longer or puch them to start later.

At what time do you get your contr, saw you mentioned them around 2'10, is that when they normaly starts, what are they like when they start, hard och do the sneak up kinda soft and slow?

How long time can you handle the conrt. how many are they, cam you count them, then next time try to do 2 more contr befor you end your STA. Do this every litttle now and then when doing STA and you'll son break 5min.

But be sure to have someone with you, never do this alone in pool. Have somone there to time you and to help out out of the pool if you slip into a LMC, loss of motor control, och a LOC, loss of consiusness, if you have a bad day you might enter a BO right away without any warnings, or signs of LMC or LOC, not very common but it happens.

Oki, now when we got that sorted out, are you ready to give it a go, bets way to try it is "dry STA", on the bed och floor or sofa, what ever you preffer.
Have 2 stopwatches ready one for total time and one for the contractions, just time 'em now, we'll count em on next attempt.

"2 min official top monofin-diva, 1min OT, 30s OT.

10, 9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1, official top start the watch now. and leav it on the sid no ned to watch it any more, just remember to stop it when your en your STA
Relax, close your eyes, let the thoughts drift of, feel how your falling asleep, make sure your relaxed in the whole body arms legs belly shoulder etc, just flow...

Feel the body, make sure you aint "tensed" in any muscels, relax as much as possible.

Oh what was that, a contr, next time you feel it, start the other watch. Dont, think about the time, you might see it, but don't think aoubt the time.
Relax between the conrt, dont fight em when you have them, let them come and go, relax...

How does it feel, can you stand one more, och after that one, stop bothe watches and exhale not all just about half, take a a deap breath, do it 3 more times, then breath normal.

How do you feel, warm, tired in your abs or diafram?
so what was the time, how long did you manage to hold with contr...?

Start a traingdiary, so you can monitor how you progress and it you can see "trends" how you training should be done. (what kind a warm up STA, yoga and stretching etc)

they don't scare me and they're not painful or anything
Good, contr, are good for the STA, it starts the relise of more red bloodcells from the spleen, that will help you to prolong your STA time and will help you body for the next 2 or 3 STA attempts.
But dont fight against the contr.

but once i get past the 2:10 or so mark really start to notice them and before i know it i have to take a breath. As I mentioned try to hold 2 more contractions befor you start to breathe again.

How do you breathe befor the STA, no hyperventilation, just slow big breaths.

That might be a good start, CO2 one day, a day off and then O2 the next day with 2 days off without anything other than apnea walking.

oh, and i also get an annoying need to swallow every now and then about maybe 30 seconds or so before the contractions start. Try to not swallow for as loong as you can, since it triggers the breathingreseptors, you can do this after the firs contraction, then it is more again than a stress to the body.

Wow, your still reading, well take a moment to let it all in, and make a plan how you'll do your next STA, do as your planned and then you'll see what your preformance is like and how much more you can strenghten the mental part. That's the part I have gind most time with. Think right and you'll gain much time and be able to go for some awsome dives.

Cheers and let me hear what you'r up to.
Daniel

because of this email i was able to actually extend my CO2 table by like 10 seconds.. not a lot but hey.. when you're under water every second counts. now i keep a journal of my dry statics, i try very hard not to swallow, even though when i don't swallow now i have these annoying clicking sounds in my throat that sort of distract me but i can ignore those because when i didn't swallow i got 10 more seconds! now i time my contractions and i see how much i can go beyond the contractions. usually it's like 10 or 20 seconds.

i really trust his advice, i saw a video of daniel doing 111 m on ONE breath. and part of the way in the start he swims like i do with my arms at my side then he switched to stream lining. when i'm not swimming for speed i prefer to keep my arms at my side.

i hope this helps

 

[marginatus]

thanks! (to you and Daniel).
Very good tips

 

[jome]

It's of course highly individual what works for whom, since it is mainly a mental thing and everyone's mind is different. Daniels suggestions are good, I would add one method that took me pretty far at some point.

Instead of 2 watches, use only one, but start it only when you get the first contraction. Then from day to day, try to increase both the time of contractions and the total count - in small increments, like Daniel suggested.

It's a huge mental leap to go from, say 10 to 30, but if you go from 10 to 11 and then 12 the next day...And do this for week or two, you will gradually come to realise there is nothing scary about them.

Not timing the total static time is important, because it helps you not be fixated about the total time. This can ruin your "contraction training", because one day you might get them up to a minute later and be tempted to bail out sooner than your count for the day because you have reached a pb or something silly like that. But since you don't even know what the total time is, you can concentrate on the essentials.

I don't recommend doing only this type of training for very long, because it is mentally (and physiologically) extremely taxing. But bouts of 1-2 weeks in between normal training will probably help you get to new level of mental discipline and help in maintaining control in the end phase of a static, as well as extend the "struggle phase".

Once you've extended your contractions time from for example 1:00 to 2:00 (which is completely possible, even likely), it's pretty easy to extend the total static to a new pb the next time you do a real attempt and the contractions start at the same time as before...

I don't recommend becoming fixated with the tables, or any other method for too long. Usually when progress stops for a long time despite doing a lot of training, it's time to vary and find something new. One develops by working on the areas we are bad at, but it is sometimes tempting to keep doing what we're good at, mainly because, well, it feels so damned nice to be good at something. But if you truly want to develop, you have to swallow your pride and "work on the weakest muscle" - which in this case I would say is tolerating contractions

 

[Pinggene]

Thank you for the info...

This will help a bunch.

Does everyone recommend having a partner/buddy even when practicing out of the pool...on the couch or bed?

Just wondering what your thoughts are.

Thanks,

Gene

 

[adax]

To Pinggene: I recommend to have a partner on bed and couch but for other than apnea practice

I mean for apnea it isn's so neccessary. But just my opinion as a very very beginner.

 

[monofin_diva]

wow i won't lie.. i don't have a partner there when i do dry static.

i do have another question..i hate to ask this BUT.

what about a small scuba pony bottle with a small supply of air for me strapped to my thigh when i'm open ocean diving.. you know.. JUST in case?

sorta like what my gramma told me about guns.

better to have one and not need it.. than need one and not have it.

of course freediving means we hold our breath. and i've gone to depths with nothing.

but what if something scares me or what if i just NEED to breathe and i'm 30 ft from the surface?

i know it will increase drag, but when i'm playing and swimming i don't care about speed.

do any freedivers use a backup JUST in case?

back on topic.. personally i just use the tables for CO2 or O2 without a partner... before that i was dry static alone. i only use someone with me when i'm wet static.

lol thank god i'm taking a free diving course this May next year.. i'm probably gonna screw around and kill myself by mistake if i don't take this course!

 

[trux]

Well, security during dry apnea was discussed in several threads before. I launched one earlier too, and Naiad kindly posted links to previous discussions, so I am going to look them up for you too, in a moment. Basically though, dry apnea is safer than when doing it in water, but some risks remains anyway. You should always be in position that you do not hurt yourself (or others) when you get LMC, or black out. Never train breath-holding when driving, riding a bike, piloting a jet plane, operating a nuclear power central, etc! There is also certain risk that you may choke with your own tongue when blacking out laying on the back; so taking a position on the side or half sitting may be somehow safer. Do not eat or drink when breath-holding! Do not put a plastic bag over your head

As for the spare air - I know that for example Jon carries one with him when riding a scooter in apnea. I can imagine situations when it could be handy also without a scooter (for example tangled in a fishing net, or captured in a tunnel/cave), but in most blackout situations you have no warning signals when you black out.

EDIT: there is the thread I spoke about:
[ame="http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?t=65340"]http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?t=65340[/ame]

 

[jome]

Heh, my philosophy regarding guns is exactly the opposite

Soo..Regarding spare air and such, I'm going to have to stay old school. Not having one is important for me pshychologically. I don't have the luxury of getting into such a situation where I would need it - there fore I don't get into such situations.

If I was carrying an air tank with me, I doubt I would have the mental discipline to keep my dives such as careful, I would, at least subconciously thing "ah, what the hell, if things go wrong, I always got this air..."

Also, if you're 10ft from the surface and realize you're in trouble, it's already basically too late...

I'm not saying you should not carry one, just that I would feel really strange doing so

 

[naiad]

One develops by working on the areas we are bad at, but it is sometimes tempting to keep doing what we're good at, mainly because, well, it feels so damned nice to be good at something. But if you truly want to develop, you have to swallow your pride and "work on the weakest muscle" - which in this case I would say is tolerating contractions

That's true. There are some kinds of training I have been avoiding because they are difficult and I was no good at them. I am now giving them a try and they are not so bad.

 

[Billfish]

Hi Monofin Diva,

Greetings from the "Billfish" in Northern California!

In regard to your question about carrying a "spare air" device: I wouldn't
recommend it solely for reasons of safety and the physics of compressed air
while underwater. If you're going to be a freediver, stay a freediver.
Dr. Terry Maas has an excellent article on the Freedive.net site about shallow-water blackout and two of his colleagues at Applied Ocean Specialties
are developing a freediver's safety vest. Here's the link to the article and
a description of the safety vest:

http://www.freedive.net/SWB/vest1_lo_rez.pdf

For spearfishing and general recreational freediving applications, I think this device has the potential to prevent injury and save lives.
If DB'ers out there have any additional news about the AOS safety vest, please share it with us.

Happy Holidays to all DB'ers! Peace on Earth, our beloved Ocean Planet.

 

[trux]

I agree with Jome that the spare air would bring a false feeling of security that may be dangerous, and I agree with Bill that the vest may bring more security (although the argument about false feeling of security that pushes you closer to the limits is valid here too).

However, as I wrote, I see situations where the spare air may be of an interest, although it is sure that it would be preferable to avoid such situations. So keeping it with you when freediving with a scooter or on a sled, for the case of technical problem; or when freediving in caves, tunnels, wrecks, in places with a lot of fishing lines or nets, or in other similar situations where you can get trapped. In these situations the vest would not help. Another possibility would be the freediving buoyancy belt from Zealog - it has the possibility to attach a small regulator.

You should be also aware of the great risk of barotrauma at using the SpareAir bottle in case of an accident when freediving - being in the freedive mode and possibly in panic, you may try taking a breath from the bottle and keeping it for as long as possible (because there is so little of it). That could have fatal consequences if you ascended, because the expanding air would injure and possibly kill you. If you ever consider using such device, be pretty sure you drill using it carefully - if you don't, you can bet you forget about it when you really need it in emergency.

 

[monofin_diva]

hey all.. thanks for the replies to my question about a pony bottle or spare air.

i wouldn't use it like a crutch- just waiting until i couldnt breathe then use it on the way up.

more like i would use it ONLY in cases of extreme emergencies.

i dont know.. anything can happen down there and i think i'd feel more comfortable with that little insurance. i wouldn't rely on it except for extreme emergencies.

the difference with free divers vs scuba divers is that they usually have a backup plan. i would just hate to end up in a situation at depth where i NEEDED air but had non.

lord knows i don't want to take a death breath.

these are the sorts of concerns and questions i'll be able to ask when i take that freediving course in May of next year.

i'll check out the links that some of you guys sent in your replies.

i do know there are some concerns regarding the ascent or breath holding or SCUBA then breatholding or breath holding and scuba etc.

lol maybe that's the girl scout in me.. but i always want to be prepared for anything. hell i go hiking and day backpacking with WAY more things than i need *just* in case something happens and i need a back up plan.

aaah, the perils of having a military significant other. he always drills in me to be ready for anything. i love freediving because of the serenity it gives me, BUT if something freaks me out or i get tangled or caught.. that spare air could be a life saver.

any other thoughts on this?

P.S. i would never intentionally put myself into a situation where i would NEED the air. it would merely be a backup. not a crutch. i never push myself beyond my limits. i'm very disciplined in that regard.

 

[Bill]

"Never train breath-holding when driving, riding a bike, piloting a jet plane,"

I used to break the third rule Trux. Figured that the other two pilots in the cockpit could probably get along without me. One thing that you made me think if though; they were both junior to me and might put the plastic bag on if I blacked out and maybe secure it with a tourniquet around my neck to gain a number on the list.
Just kidding
Aloha
Bill

 

[laminar]

Excellent tips on static training and learning to love contractions.

A small thing that Daniel mentioned that you may have missed is about how the contractions feel.

In my opinion, when you are relaxed and have developed CO2 buffers aka CO2 tolerance, contractions tend to come on slowly and gently, building to a certain level that can be tolerated.

On bad days, when you are getting sick, are overtired, are not fit, hydrated, high blood pressure, etc... contractions can feel god awful. :duh After years of trying to push through that feeling, I've learned that it's better to rest and try it again another day.

I also very much like Jome's suggestion of timing contractions only and abandoning personal bests for a while. Relaxing during contractions really is an essential technique of static breath holding that can be improved dramatically. When you can hold your breath for 3 minutes of contractions, you know your pb is going to be toast.

I would also had some kind of cross training to increase your blood buffers. I find anaerobic intervals with a proper warm up are excellent. If you can, aim for 1-2 minutes at 85-90% maxHR on 5 minutes rest (X 5-7 reps) 2-3 times a week and you should notice a difference in your contractions.

Pete

 

[Sommerlund]

A little something from a 2-weeks-into-freediving-newbee

humm, how do ya all feel contractions? cramps in the diraphram? or what??

Hope you can help me
Best regards