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cool monofin video

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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JimGlynn

New Member
Jan 16, 2002
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cool monofin videos

Check out www.sportalsub.net click on freediving, and scroll down to the two cool monofin videos of a top Japanese diver. His technique is very fluid and he seems to use his upper torso much more than the traditional finswimmers. I have been working this winter on really trying to unlock the efficiency I know the mono is capable of, but it all seems to be very individualistic. Does anybody know of any other videos of dynamic with monofin on the web? It seems that the finswimmers are more interested in speed than distance and therefore their style might not be the best to emulate.
Jim
 
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Pezman

We pee deep. Ew!
Sep 24, 2002
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Jim,

That is an awesome link. I was reading the papers that were under the "Are freedivers getting softer" thread, and when I went through the equations for the amplitude vs speed needed for optimal efficiency (i.e. the vortices shed outwared from the slip stream rather than inward), I was pretty sure that a human was incapable of pulling it off. However, if you look at the bubbles in the underwater video, it seems pretty clear that the vortices for the sprinters are shedding outward. One of the clips is of a woman doing what looks like a ld event (i.e. using a slower, smoother stroke), and there the vortices seem to shed inward.

It is interesting that the surface swimmers are very careful not to break the surface w/ the fin and some of the underwater swimmers go very close to the bottom (exploiting a boundary effect maybe?).

Hopefully we'll both discover the secret this season.
 

JimGlynn

New Member
Jan 16, 2002
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check out this site also- www.kubrt.net Tons of science. It was recommended to me by the Swedish Finswimming coach Valter Olander.(is the web great or what, a national coach sent me tips)
Anyway, Mike and others, on the sportal site, look at the difference in style the Japanese guy has vs. the finswimmers and lets talk about efficiency quotients.
Jim
 

Cragrat

New Member
Aug 16, 2001
46
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That was a pretty interesting video. Especially when I realized that they were breathing from those torpedo shaped things they were holding while finning. Probably pure O2? They certainly have a very fluid style.

David Nesbitt aka Cragrat
 

JimGlynn

New Member
Jan 16, 2002
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Hey Dave, how's it going?- I believe the term for that type of finswimming is dynamic with a bottle and is part of competition. They are breathing air and I think they are able to go fastser underwater than they can on the surface due to lack of drag. Most of the translations into English are not that good but its obvious a good finswimmer is an amazing athlete.
Jim
 

Maguelito

New Member
May 18, 2001
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Thanks

Hi friends, thanks for your messages about the monofin videos in sportalsub.
You can find more videos about all the underwater sports in our videos section

http://www.sportalsub.net
 

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efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
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To my knowledge the record for 100m apnea immersion is 31.XX seconds by Urchenko (sp?)


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 

derelictp

Freediver
Oct 16, 2001
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Hello!

I read in some swimming-page (don't remember the adress) that on surface and beneath the surface the wave-effect is reducing speed and that I think everyone that trains in pool have noticed.

The most interesting was that if you have an object going in the water and the diameter of the object is "d" then you have to go down to a depth of "3*d" to get rid of the wave-effect.

In a human application it would be at about 90cm+!

That explains a part of why it's harder to do dynamic in a shallow pool. (of course it's because of a more variable boyancy too). :head
 

Skindiver

100 % H2O
Feb 5, 2002
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Knee bending.

I couldnt view the Japanese video's mentioned but i did see the finswimming montage and what was most impressive for me was the amount of knee bending that took place amongst just about every fin swimmer. Up to 90 degrees.

I thought that was a such a no no. The only guy that seemed to be keeping his legs straightish was coming last...

I'm just going to do what works for me and out with the 'holy grail technique' thing from now on.

Skin.
 

JimGlynn

New Member
Jan 16, 2002
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I think knee bending is okay as long as the movement originates from the hips. Check out Sebastien's style http://www.amphibios.info/ He has very little knee bend, yet keeps his hands against his sides as opposed to overhead.It would be nice if he jumped in here and gave us amateurs some insight.
Jim
 

samdive

Mermaid, Musician and Marketer
Nov 12, 2002
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I'd say Jim is right. Most people tell you not to use your knees but when you watch them their knees bend. It is more of a case of flexing the knees to carry the ripple through the body than kicking from them - at least in constant weight. It's when you see the torso and upper leg stiff as a board and the knees doing all the work that it looks (and feels wrong).

A slight anomaly to this is dynamic when your back/torso starts to give up and you might want to use what you have left in your knees to drive you those extra few metres!

Just try and feel where the power is coming from (I try and get it to feel like its originating from around the abs) and make sure its not the knees! and if you ARE kicking all from the knees you will sure know about it after!!

Sam
 

efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
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Personally I kick from the knees. I find that too much upper body movement wastes O2. Sure, you need to move your upper body to reach the maximum speed, but I don't want speed, I want efficiency.

I think that it is a mistake to learn from finswimmers. Freediving is too different. Finswimming technique might have a weak correlation for dynamic, but I think it has no correlation for constant weight.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 

JimGlynn

New Member
Jan 16, 2002
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Eric-
Nice to have your input here. How do you feel about hands over head in ascending and descending?
Jim
 

efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
3,294
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Arms Up/Down:

Case 1: Using a mask
Descent: Left arm by my side, right hand NEAR my nose, but I don't actually pinch my nose unless equalizing, because pinching wastes too much energy
Ascent: Both arms by my side

Case 2: Fluid goggles with 3mm or thinner smoothskin wetsuit
Descent: arms by my sides until the sinking phase, then arms extended for the sink phase
Ascent: Arms by by my side


However, I used to extend my arms for the ascent. I can say that the difference is very minor, but keeping my arms by my side is far more enjoyable and relaxing, and makes for a more enjoyable dive. Given that the difference in performance is almost un-measurable, I choose the more relaxing option.

The only technique in this area which I think is truly counterproductive is to extend one arm while pinching the nose with the other. I definitely think that impairs your dive.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 

matthieu

Monofin Addict
Nov 8, 2001
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Ascent: arms up much faster.... but recommanded for people with flexible arms(eg monofinswimmers)
 

efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
3,294
487
173
I ascend faster with my arms by my sides. Keeping your arms by your sides increases drag, and wastes energy in that sense, but the energy to extend your arms wastes even more energy than you save, for most people. It also depends a bit on your technique.

Remember than Sebastien Murat did 50m apnea in 15 seconds with his ARMS BY HIS SIDES.

Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 

JimGlynn

New Member
Jan 16, 2002
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I found Sebastien's technique to be a great example. Obviously one would think that he is flexible enough to adopt the classic finswimmer's extension, yet he chooses to keep his arms by his sides. I am wondering if the the most benefit is only gained by making a perfect triangle with the arms. Perhaps anything less only gives a marginal gain. Thoughts?
Jim
 

matthieu

Monofin Addict
Nov 8, 2001
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it helps to have a monofinswimming race suit . I have one built with arms 11.00 - 13.00 (clock). You cannot have your arms by your side with this type of suit:D
 
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derelictp

Freediver
Oct 16, 2001
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For some reason I like to have the arms by my side on ascent in a constant weight dive, it just feels right.

In dynamic it's different but I can't point out why. I think that the reason can be that in dynamic a have to compensate to not floating up or going down. The arms help me to hold the direction except for better hydrodynamics.

In constant weight I can relax and kick and I don't have the bottom or the surface to worry about.

If I have a stiff fin, for me it's more beneficial with my arms stretched. With a soft fin maybe arms by my side is better. I think this relation has to do with the momentum of a longer body when the arms are stretched. (Hope you can understand my bad english here:hmm )

The problem is I only have a stiff fin right now but I will do more tests.:p

Most important I think is that it's the sum of all energy output that should be taken to a minimum like Eric mentioned and maybe that's the key to performing in this sport?
 
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