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COVID, freediving and vaccination

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
M

Mackerel

Active Member
Jun 5, 2015
11
2
38
61
Someone asked for advice about vaccination, and you recommended inhaling salty water. I'm not letting that go past without a remark.
Yellsback, I'm reading through this thread, and I realise that you are not the salty-water guy. But you felt that you should reply to support him, even though you are not anti-vax or a covid-denier. I would say that the supporters of salty water as a covid cure will probably want to rebuke me themselves.
And I firmly believe that when we meet misinformation as egregious as some of the comments today, it is very important not to pretend that it should be tolerated, let alone respected. If you spread this nonsense, expect ridicule. It is one way of helping people understand that they might be wrong. Of course, some individuals are impervious to mockery, eg your ex-president!
 
7BDiver

7BDiver

Active Member
Sep 5, 2019
180
66
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If you carefully read through the posts you would find there is merit to the "salt water" theory https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7528968/. Just because something appears homeopathic hippy nonsense does not mean their is not a scientific basis behind it. Much of or livelihoods and health is still based on traditional practices passed on for thousands of years, which much could be considered superstitious. Eventually science finds and explanation to the known benefits, but don't simply disregard ones suggested remedies merely because some doctor is not pushing it. Trump may not have been the arbiter of science or great decisions but he had great wisdom to question mainstream ideas as we all should. Go a step further and research your assumptions, you will find numerous rabbit holes worth pursuing.
 
J Campbell

J Campbell

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2001
620
192
148
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This experimental vaccination from frankenstein's laboratory doesn't even come near me.
It's all about money.
I’ don't know anyone who is sick, nobody who has died, but many who suffer from the collateral damage of the lock downs.
But many who were totally paralyzed, frightened by the primitive and mendacious propaganda in the media.
The Covid tests and vaccinations in my country are totally chaotic. Extremely many false positives. Manipulated diagnoses. Hyped death rates.
Manipulation through fear, hystery and misinformation.

I am not participating.
I will not conform.
I dont care.

I live my life normally, go on traveling and diving as soon as possible.
"I’ don't know anyone who is sick, nobody who has died" Good for you. But I know several who have died and others who have been sick. It's real. It kills.
 
J Campbell

J Campbell

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2001
620
192
148
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The civics lesson was my pleasure.

What does "Echoes of Trump" even mean. Why did you Know you needed to add that.

You have not pointed out to me in a previous message that the CDC has fully isolated and sequenced the actual cause the disease. Further you have not provided a link of them even saying that.

I provided a link that shows it is ongoing effort with 28K variants just last week. I know it is not fully isolated because the CDC has not found all the variants.

You do not have to prove to me why you and your wife got the jabs. What variants were in the jabs.
Trump is famous for saying "many people say..." or some variant of that. It's a running joke. It's his way of throwing out nonsense to serve his needs when he doesn't have any real data to back it up.
 
Yellsback

Yellsback

Active Member
Jan 13, 2015
7
1
38
43
Someone asked for advice about vaccination, and you recommended inhaling salty water. I'm not letting that go past without a remark.
I did not recommend that...you’re getting me mixed up with another.
 
M

Mackerel

Active Member
Jun 5, 2015
11
2
38
61
If you carefully read through the posts you would find there is merit to the "salt water" theory https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7528968/. Just because something appears homeopathic hippy nonsense does not mean their is not a scientific basis behind it. Much of or livelihoods and health is still based on traditional practices passed on for thousands of years, which much could be considered superstitious. Eventually science finds and explanation to the known benefits, but don't simply disregard ones suggested remedies merely because some doctor is not pushing it. Trump may not have been the arbiter of science or great decisions but he had great wisdom to question mainstream ideas as we all should. Go a step further and research your assumptions, you will find numerous rabbit holes worth pursuing.
I know the benefits of salty water - I used to use it when I felt I was catching a cold. What staggered me was offering it as advice to someone looking for info on vaccination. As if it were an equivalent alternative!
 
M

Mackerel

Active Member
Jun 5, 2015
11
2
38
61
Yellsback, I'm reading back through this thread now, and I realise that you are not the salty-water guy. But you felt that you should reply to support him, even though you are not anti-vax or a covid-denier. I would say that the supporters of salty water as a covid cure will probably want to rebuke me themselves.
And I firmly believe that when we meet misinformation as egregious as some of the comments today, it is very important not to pretend that it should be tolerated, let alone respected. If you spread this nonsense, expect ridicule. It is one way of helping people understand that they might be wrong. Of course, some individuals are impervious to mockery, eg your ex-president!
 
S

scott11

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2007
14
2
88
Trump is famous for saying "many people say..." or some variant of that. It's a running joke. It's his way of throwing out nonsense to serve his needs when he doesn't have any real data to back it up.
I notice you do that all the time!
 
7BDiver

7BDiver

Active Member
Sep 5, 2019
180
66
43
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I don't think anyone proposed it as a cure, but I do strongly recommend it as preventative measure. At this time there are many things that could be considered misinformation, especially the effectiveness of masks, lockdowns and social distancing. Much of this has seen conflicting information over the past year. Bar none, there is nothing more critical in preventing and recovering from infection than our own health and knowledge of the immune system. Some may pursue vaccines and some may pursue bolstering their own immune system against virus incursion, the end result is the exact same (an immune response adequate for defending against a virus). One can argue that the vaccine will limit the potential asymptomatic affects of the virus and some fear the side effects of the vaccine. Absolutely no one knows the correct answer and only time will tell. I would hope as divers we would have some collective knowledge to share or perhaps experience/health benefits to conclude our lifestyles and practices provide some measure of benefit or resilience to the current affliction.
 
H

hansa123

Member
Feb 26, 2021
30
3
18
28
My personal opinion is that we are lucky that vaccines are available and I will get one as soon as I am eligible. Some reports here are quite shocking and I hope you guys will finally recover from all negative effects! I agree, any vaccine that reduces the chance of infection or a severe course should be used.
 
H

hansa123

Member
Feb 26, 2021
30
3
18
28
And just to be clear: sure, having a healthy lifestyle, getting your vitamins and sun exposure will always be beneficial. But still, a vaccine on top might be even better.
 
Yellsback

Yellsback

Active Member
Jan 13, 2015
7
1
38
43
Yellsback, I'm reading through this thread, and I realise that you are not the salty-water guy. But you felt that you should reply to support him, even though you are not anti-vax or a covid-denier. I would say that the supporters of salty water as a covid cure will probably want to rebuke me themselves.
And I firmly believe that when we meet misinformation as egregious as some of the comments today, it is very important not to pretend that it should be tolerated, let alone respected. If you spread this nonsense, expect ridicule. It is one way of helping people understand that they might be wrong. Of course, some individuals are impervious to mockery, eg your ex-president!
I do not support the “salty water” information that member posted. I only replied because of the Trump supporter/voter comment. Evidently this was not clear, as you took it as me supporting the whole thing.

I apologize for the lack of clarity.

It would honestly be interesting to meet you sometime, as I actually appreciate those that have a different viewpoint than myself. However, this probably won’t happen...and maybe it isn’t the best idea. I may disagree with someone until my last breath, BUT I will respect their right to an opinion. You have just said above that you would refuse to do that.

Take care and happy diving!
 
burjegol

burjegol

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2005
35
8
98
64
I voted for Trump, both times, and happily would again. That said, I’m not sure what someone’s political affiliation has to do with answering the person’s original question.

I thought this thread was sharing opinions and experiences about whether or not to receive the Covid vaccine - see my earlier reply. I personally don’t appreciate your quip. However, I defend your right to say it. Happy diving everyone!☀️
Naw, I don't vote for Trump as am not G.I. Yet, I like Trump as he has the same balls with our president. He calls things as they are. And yes, this forum should be apolitical.

happy diving and spearfishing. Leave politics to politicians while we just enjoy being a spearo. :unsure::unsure::LOL::LOL::LOL:
 
ReefTroll

ReefTroll

Expert Space Drummer
Apr 9, 2008
1,725
335
188
42
If you carefully read through the posts you would find there is merit to the "salt water" theory https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7528968/. Just because something appears homeopathic hippy nonsense does not mean their is not a scientific basis behind it. Much of or livelihoods and health is still based on traditional practices passed on for thousands of years, which much could be considered superstitious. Eventually science finds and explanation to the known benefits, but don't simply disregard ones suggested remedies merely because some doctor is not pushing it. Trump may not have been the arbiter of science or great decisions but he had great wisdom to question mainstream ideas as we all should. Go a step further and research your assumptions, you will find numerous rabbit holes worth pursuing.
You literally posted a hypothesis paper, as titled by its own author. And that’s all it is, a hypothesis. It contains zero conclusive evidence of anything and even states this.

As for homeopathic hippy nonsense, you know what they call alternative medicine that works? Medicine.
Please refrain from stating that all alternative theories are novel and beyond science, because by the time stuff has made it to the world of modern homeopathic hippy nonsense it has been rigorously tested by the legitimate scientific community anyway. And hiding behind “do your research” is an offensive way to attempt to belittle somebody, especially when you are unable to show any research you have actually done.
 
7BDiver

7BDiver

Active Member
Sep 5, 2019
180
66
43
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Yes, a hypothesis is the foundation of any scientific study of a theory, thanks for bringing us back to 3rd grade. You are absolutely wrong in thinking "rigorously studied" holds any oats in science, if you have read many medical studies lately you would know that they most always end in "much more thorough investigation is needed". Speaking of doing your own research, people should be very wary of taking "medicine" as established and credible science. Much of our modern medicine, especially vaccines, is based on statistically observed results with very limited mechanistic understanding of how the kitchen chemistry affects the body. Alternative medicine that "works" is very open to interpretation and even medicine of insignificant value is often permitted in practice. Do your own research is not a reprimand or condescending jab at ones comment, it is an encouragement for people to get interested in finding answers instead of surrendering their curiosity to any one source of information.
 
ReefTroll

ReefTroll

Expert Space Drummer
Apr 9, 2008
1,725
335
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Yes, a hypothesis is the foundation of any scientific study of a theory, thanks for bringing us back to 3rd grade. You are absolutely wrong in thinking "rigorously studied" holds any oats in science, if you have read many medical studies lately you would know that they most always end in "much more thorough investigation is needed". Speaking of doing your own research, people should be very wary of taking "medicine" as established and credible science. Much of our modern medicine, especially vaccines, is based on statistically observed results with very limited mechanistic understanding of how the kitchen chemistry affects the body. Alternative medicine that "works" is very open to interpretation and even medicine of insignificant value is often permitted in practice. Do your own research is not a reprimand or condescending jab at ones comment, it is an encouragement for people to get interested in finding answers instead of surrendering their curiosity to any one source of information.
Let’s break down your response:
“Yes, a hypothesis is the foundation of any scientific study of a theory, thanks for bringing us back to 3rd grade”
- You literally posted it as evidence, of which is bore none. At all.

“You are absolutely wrong in thinking "rigorously studied" holds any oats in science, if you have read many medical studies lately you would know that they most always end in "much more thorough investigation is needed".”
- I’m absolutely wrong? Wow, but strong for somebody who follows up with “if you have read many medical studies lately” when I am literally a medical scientist. And being rigorously studied is exactly what “hold oats” in science. The only time it doesn’t is when somebody uneducated disagrees with it and therefore tries to palm off prior studies as useless for some reason.

“Speaking of doing your own research, people should be very wary of taking "medicine" as established and credible science. Much of our modern medicine, especially vaccines, is based on statistically observed results with very limited mechanistic understanding of how the kitchen chemistry affects the body.”
- Seriously? Modern medicine is actually, constantly, endlessly, studied and revisited. And especially vaccines? Based on statistically observed results? You should find out what’s actually involved in novel pharmacology especially in regards to the clinical development phases. And how does a statistic help somebody code for a novel virus?? That is literally impossible, apart from the techniques used to speed up identification. And saying science has a limited view of chemistry in the body is ludicrous.

“Alternative medicine that "works" is very open to interpretation and even medicine of insignificant value is often permitted in practice.”
- No it isn’t open to interpretation. It works or it doesn’t. This is the joy of science as opposed to uneducated rigmarole trying to discredit actual study. And some things are permitted by some people in practice. Doesn’t make it right or effective.

As for your finishing statement in this pile of word salad, do your own research is only ever mentioned, in my experience, by people who have never actually researched anything. Reading a paper poorly and cherry picking isn’t research, studying something as the source is.
Your comments are also entirely vague and never actually mention anything specific to the topic apart from trying to discredit actual science.
 
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ReefTroll

ReefTroll

Expert Space Drummer
Apr 9, 2008
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No, your brainwashed!

Go ahead and line up for your jab. Fauci is your buddy.

I am very well informed.
With what actual qualifications do you make your claim of being “well informed”?
 
ReefTroll

ReefTroll

Expert Space Drummer
Apr 9, 2008
1,725
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Don’t vaccinate, take antioxidants and improve your immunity with that, if you get contaminated your immune system will overcome Covid like a regular cold, or may even only feel it very light for a day a night, take teas made up of Canela, Ginger and cúrcuma, with that you won’t even be bother by any symptom, take also raw guarana tea , this will be helpful for zero congestion, lot of water and to finish all there is a pill from Herbalife call cell activator it has Pycnogenol, Resveratrol and Chiitake Mushrooms w/that your immune system will be like a German Tank
Antioxidants have nothing to do with immunological recognition. Your post is disgusting in terms of the misinformation and you have zero understanding of the immune system. @Stephan Whelan can this post be removed?
 
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7BDiver

7BDiver

Active Member
Sep 5, 2019
180
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First off, suggesting the article has "merit" is suggesting an idea has reasonable argument to form a hypothesis, not a statement of "evidence" as you conjectured. "Alternative" was not intended to be in the sentence.

It appears with so many medical scientists there comes a complex touting the idea that their research is definitive and bulletproof. A true scientists realizes the more they learn, the more they understand how little they know as nature is not simple in any regard. Since you mention it, of all medical research, vaccine studies have the most appalling lack of "rigorous" standards of study. With a lack of true controlled experimenting, limited group numbers, biased test groups, assumptions based on animal studies, and straight experimental variables that are not accounted for, it is very difficult to find credibility in the findings. Statistical evidence of effecacy and safety is often at the expense of the greater public and very limited in that regard. "If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment," Ernest Rutherford, you should know who he is. They can code for creating vaccines all day long but even phylogenetic inference has been shown to have poor accuracy, and other means for properly isolating pathogens for sequencing are exceptionally difficult and complex. I am not trying to be disparaging against current medicine, but I have been disappointed with the lack of ethics historically and of recent times.
 
marco15499

marco15499

Laguneros Spearfishing
Apr 4, 2011
347
141
83
Well, I got the Covid (and almost passed... ) one year ago and got the vaccine as soon as I could (Johnson & Johnson).

I'm diving as I used to do it before getting sick. I'm 56.

This video is from last week:

 
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