creatine for apnea

[jay cluskey]

just want to pick peoples brains a bit here i was looking on the apnea nutrition site it mentions creatine as a suppliment can anyone elaborate on this please, is it banned in comps and stuff
regards and thanks in advance
james

 

[chrismar]

Creatine is not banned by WADA and I don't believe that AIDA specifically bans any additional substances, oxygen aside.

It has the potential to perhaps increase performance by allowing the muscles to operate efficiently sans-O2 for longer and with less lactic build-up. More interestingly, it should help with recovery when training and also reduce muscle loss when in a heavy training cycle.

I might have a crack at it next year as an experiment and will blog on how it goes. Does anyone who's been there already care to share?

 

[kmo]

I've used it for weight training a few years ago but not for apnea. I'd be interested to see your results Chris, but from all of the research I did at the time (the details of which are very hazy now) I'm not sure that the effects would be very noticable for low intensity exercise.

Creatine is a non-essential amino acid so testing would be very difficult if not impossible even if it were to be banned.

Side note: As a weight gainer creatine is that effective that some nutrition companies were slipping it into their protein powders unannounced, but a lot of that weight is from water retention.

 

[Mr. X]

Creatine - Information from Reference.com
Creatine appeared in the sports supplements sections of supermarkets in the US some years ago. If I recall correctly, as the fashionable supplement of the time, it didn't take off like chromium picolinate before it or whey protein after it. The impression I got was that it's readily available in the cells of regular food (e.g. meat). I wouldn't take it. If you want to gain weight, eat an extra healthy meal (somebody once suggested waking up in the night to have an extra meal if you wish to gain weight). If you really feel you must buy a supplement, whey protein (i.e. milk protein) seems to have gained widespread acceptance over an extended period. It will do you more harm than good unless you are exercising regularly though.

 

[Mullins]

Taking creatine for freediving would not be to gain weight, but to delay muscle failure. I tried it for a while this year when I was doing DNF and muscle fatigue was more of a problem than in DYN (I had a few years of DYN training to build up a bit of leg strength but hadn't been using my arms at all). There did seem to be a reduction in the severity of the lactic 'burn' towards the end of my swims (the pain was dulled, never became sharp) but because my training around that time was quite irregular (injury and work) I could never really tell if it was helping my speed over the last couple of lengths. I stopped taking it because it gave me a 24hr headache, despite drinking heaps of water. Might try it again next year when I'm back to doing longer swims again. I seldom respond well to any sort of supplementation though - it seems that any time I take something concentrated like creatine or multivitamins I get headaches, bleeding gums or something similarly unpleasant.

KMO, I think you could call running your muscles to complete failure a high-intensity exercise, even if there's no impact or explosive effort going on.

 

[jay cluskey]

i do not need to gain weight i ve got down from 15.8st to about 14.00st
im only 5ft10 ins so i could get down to 13.00st and feel better

the suppliments ive seen come in a pippette applicator bottle and are said to be ingested instantly without any stresses on your kidneys etc , they are quite exspensive ,about £50.00 for 100ml there are several variants, anti oxidant ,thermogenic runners formula, are 3 which i have seen

 

[jome]

My personal experience is that there is a little performance benefit that can be gained in the "moving disciplines", biggest in CW and slight in dynamic. In the magnitude of 10-15 seconds of "extra" dive time. This is almost purely subjective observation though.

In theoritical sense, what I can make of energy pathways and such, it seems to support similar range. What makes it interesting for CW is the sink phase - ie the longer you free fall, the longer you "recharge" and the better your creatine stores, the better you recharge (my understanding anyway). In other words, the deeper the dive, the bigger the relative gain - or maybe my logic is completely twisted.

However the effectiveness of Creatine supplementation varies greatly from person to person and especially for living habits in general. Ie non-exercising vegetarians have a huge theoretical gain where as meat eating regular exercisers are in the other end of the spectrum (marginal gain).

For me, being more of a "slow twitch"-guy, it seems to give a clear benefit when I try to do "fast twitch" activities such as weight training or constant weight diving

 

[sayNO2o2]

funny i just got some on my way home. had been doing a bit of study on supplements and thought i would give it a go. open up deeperblue and find a topic about it.

i thought i would try it as it is a buffer for lactic acid, at the end of my dynamics i can get a little lactic.i seem to come up because im uncomfy.(not that i think doing dynamics should be comfy)
if it gives me just a 10sec extra swim time well that could be 15m. or even just a bit less lactic.

will see how it goes.

 

[Will]

make sure you're using creatine ester ethyl hcl (commonly called cre2). It doesn't require a loading phase and doesn't lead to water retention or some of the digestive problems associated with the monohydrate form.
the creatine phosphate pathway is anaerobic and doesn't produce CO2 (all that happens is CP phosphorilates ADP to make new ATP), so it is basically a free lunch for a freediver.
cooking denatures creatine drastically, so there would be marginal difference between vegetarians & meat lovers without supplementation.

 

[jome]

Just one thing I'd like to make clear. It will not magically give 15m dynamic performance to anyone. It's no silver bullet. But for someone who's already a pretty able diver and reaching a real plateau, it may give a clear extra boost. My opinion anyway...The possible gain is easily lost in bad technique, inconsistent prep etc etc.

Ok - raw meat eaters

 

[bite ya]

make sure you're using creatine ester ethyl hcl (commonly called cre2). It doesn't require a loading phase and doesn't lead to water retention or some of the digestive problems associated with the monohydrate form.
the creatine phosphate pathway is anaerobic and doesn't produce CO2 (all that happens is CP phosphorilates ADP to make new ATP), so it is basically a free lunch for a freediver.
cooking denatures creatine drastically, so there would be marginal difference between vegetarians & meat lovers without supplementation.

Jome
I totally agree, there are many types of creatine on the market, if you are going to take this don't purchase from your average health shop as the stuff is pant's. I take creatine twice a year only just before i start peaking in my performances (gym or pool) and the creatine ester you refer to requires no loading phase at all and is a bit kinder to your body.

The only benifit is reduction of lactic build up which enables you to train that little bit further than you would of at a normal failure point.

It is a great suppliment but again totally agree it's no substitute for good technique and prep..

Chris

 

[ILDiver]

Question. I've read creatine is a transporter for water to get into the tissue and you need to keep well hydrated with it. Where the creatine goes, the water follows. Has anyone felt any elevated dehydration while on creatine and diving deep? With a quick google search I've found conflicting reports as to creatine's effect on dehydration.

 

[bite ya]

Chris
When i use creatine it does make me dehydrated, this is also why some people get bad headaches whilst using it (me included) you do need to drink plenty to avoid this side effect.

Chris

 

[sayNO2o2]

thanks for the info guys.
yea i did a bit of reading about it. and didnt go with the monohydrate.
i have use it a bit in the past when i was hitting the gym.
no i dont think it will make me swim further but if it can make my swim more comfy then maybe i will man up and push a bit harder.

 

[bite ya]

One more point...take it with pure apple juice, it transports it quicker into your system. (bodybuilder friend of mine's advice?)

 

[Will]

One more point...take it with pure apple juice, it transports it quicker into your system. (bodybuilder friend of mine's advice?)

...only applies to monohydrate.

 

[watts]

Has anyone had any experience using Octocosanol it is derived from wheat germ. Studies indicate that this compound is useful in improving endurance and increasing oxygen utilization.

 

[bite ya]

Will, correct, is only applicable to that type..

watts, never used it but will take a look...

 

[efattah]

Has anyone had any experience using Octocosanol it is derived from wheat germ. Studies indicate that this compound is useful in improving endurance and increasing oxygen utilization.

You can get octacosanol by eating lots of spinach. I've tried it, both by spinach and by octacosanol supplements. At first I thought I noticed a beneficial effect, but it was too small to be important (for me at least).

 

[watts]

Some of the packs are 8000 mcg+ per capsule. How much do you think you would need to be effective? I cant find any evidence of any side effects at all being all natural. Im sure spinach wouldnt have that much.