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Crimping

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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portinfer

Aquatic shopper...
Jul 3, 2003
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I need to do some crimping. Both to replace a mono leader with a small cut in it for me and for a friend with a slipped crimp (and no shaft now).

Anyway, I was planning on getting 50m of 1.4mm mono, some barrel crimps to fit that diametre and crimping pliers. (probably spearo.co.uk for £45 or so).

Does anyone double crimp ?

I ask this due to the unfortunate slipped crimp of my friends gun.

Are there any tricks to crimping ?

We are both coming from a background of tying a single wrap to a euro gun. Now we both have wooden guns with reels it's all a bit new !

Any advice welcome - cheers - Ed
 

w3ac

I should be working
Nov 8, 2002
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double crimping

Double crimping is always a good idea. However, before you crimp you should also burn the tag end of the mono so it balls up a little then snug it up to the end of the crimp. Do this to both ends of the mono. Just make sure that you don't expose the mainline to the fire as this will significantly weaken it. Make your mono measurement before cutting, burning and crimping and you shouldn't have too much problems. Oh, use the right crimping tool for the job. I've seen mono pull through crimps only to find out that the guy was too cheap to buy a good $20 crimping tool. In the end, he had to spend $50 dollars on a new shaft plus the $20 for the crimping tool. :duh Hope this helps.

Brad
 
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dave

Dicentrarchus labrax
Jan 13, 2003
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I am a great believer in burning the end of the mono, although I know many people who shoot much bigger fish than me who dont! For the UK, double crimping is not really worth the bother and bulk. The most important thing is to crimp the sleeve in the right direction, with the right tool. A doublebarrel crimp is shaped like an "8". The pressure needs to be applied top and bottom, so the sleeve ends up round, NOT on the sides, flattening the sleeve as I have seen many people do
On the Totem guns (unless they have changed recently) the trigger mechanism is not wide enough to use mono thicker than 1.4mm
cheers
dave
www.spearo.co.uk
 
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portinfer

Aquatic shopper...
Jul 3, 2003
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Cheers Brad and Dave - I didnt know about the burning - will have a crack. Do you just burn the end a little with a lighter ?

I'll sort out the crimpers and line now I think.

I use a Totemsub Pelagos 100 with a reel.
I was wondering about the join where the mono is looped and crimped and then the dyneema is tied to it.

The knot looks like more of a friction knot than a proper knot. I mean it looks like it can be undone then re-tied really quickly. However with this ease of access comes a worry. How strong is this method ?

What do others use ?

Do you use a barrel snap link to the mono shooting line ?

Just thinking of ways to minimise the loss of gear !

Ed
 

w3ac

I should be working
Nov 8, 2002
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On my Sproasub I have a large trolling swivel attached to a small bungee. The lighter will work fine for burning. As far as knots go, I really like using a Uni knot for most fishing and rope tying applications. It is a type on clinch knot but a lot stronger than the standard. Try this link for directions http://www.outdoorsite.com/knots/knot7.cfm Good luck and dive safe.

Brad
 

GilbertG.

New Member
Jul 28, 2004
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Brad, by "double crimping" do you mean two crimping sleeves or two squeezes on the same crimp?

I haven't done it before but I think burning the tag end is good practice. As monofilament stretches, the diameter will reduce greatly. Enough to pull through a crimping sleeve if its not done properly. The ball end should resist pulling through. I use a single crimp with two squeezes. No matter how you do it, the line should break before the crimp lets go of the line, unless you're using cable.

Hey if you guys are interested, I have a hydraulic puller out in the shop. I can crimp up some 300 lb test mono according to the different methods being discussed here. It would be a good test to find out which set-ups will actually hold the line until the line breaks.

Portinfer can you tell what kind of knot it is? I can test this wishbone set up as well...

Gilbert
 

portinfer

Aquatic shopper...
Jul 3, 2003
1,327
407
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Gilbert
The knot is in the dyneema. The dyneema passes through the loop of the crimped mono. Once through it goes up an inch then does two loops down over itself back towards the loop middle and away from the crimp. From there the end passes under the entry dyneema and as it is pulled tight it locks on itself.

But not too tight. You can loosen it and release it pretty quickly with non-gloved hands.

I have just retied it. I took a loop of dyneema and passed it around itself to form a basic loop knot. The mono loop fits over this loop and I passed the spear through the mono loop to lock it. In other words two loops locked on each other.

Still, now I cannot take it apart to get a funnily speared fish off but that rarely happens with the size of fish here and it seems safer to me.

ie with the first knot (friction type) I suspect with some back pulling it would come adrift. ie if a fish got caught in weed etc.

Anyway - i have attached an image of some crimps I found in the shed (everlasting source of tools - some stretching back about 3 generations - the Sauza tequila of that name is sweet by the way :) tres generaciones)

Can I use these crimping pliers ?

Cheers
Ed
 
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portinfer

Aquatic shopper...
Jul 3, 2003
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Gilbert - your testing would be cool !

One of my friends just likes to tie dyneema straight to the spear shaft. Might be worth testing knots for that too.

You never know I may just find a 300 lb bass !

Ed
 

GilbertG.

New Member
Jul 28, 2004
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Ed, can you snap a picture and post it? I'm having trouble following. I wanna get it right before I test it.

Gil
 

Spearooo

New Member
May 2, 2003
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crimp

w3ac & dave have it rigth don't flatten press the two filiments together. also remmember to flare the crimp so the edge doesn't cut into the mono, by flare i mean crimp in two strokes each about 75mm from the end of the sleeve so the edge ins't compressed into the line and doesn't nick the mono. I don't see the need to double crimp the mono. If very large fish are the target then by all means double crimp and use cable but for every day type hunting youll be OK. My biggest fish so far is only about a 60lbs jack, so thankfully I haven't lost a fish due to a crimp yet but im sure it will happen. I;ve lost them for thousands of other reasons but one crimp seem to be fine for now....
good luck
hope it helps
 

w3ac

I should be working
Nov 8, 2002
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Yeah that test would be cool, just to see if this double crimping is really all that much better. I haven't had either single or double pull yet but since Terry Maas wrote about it and advises spearos to use it, I figured try it. By double I mean using two crimps compressed three times but with the ends flared out a little. I single crimp my euro setup with 200 pound mono. The last big GT I shot took off, got hung up in the reef and snapped the mono at the loop connecting to the shaft. The crimp held but the edge of the hole in the shaft cut through the mono. My bluewater setup is double crimped cable and so far so good. By crimping tool I mean something more like this http://www.kencove.com/crimp.htm The one I use is a little different but same concept.

Brad
 
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portinfer

Aquatic shopper...
Jul 3, 2003
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Brad - that's some serious crimping pliers !

Dave (spearo.co.uk) - sorry - found it all locally - got size 3 Cardoc crimps, 100m of 1.4mil mono and a pair of crimping pliers.

Spearoo - the crimping method you are talking about - you use one crimp then apply the pliers a small way in from the end, then you turn the crimp 90 degrees and crimp the other end ? This seems to make sense so that it doesn't pull through.

Well - going to sit in the sun (Guernsey finally has some) and practice a few crimps before a session with a mate tonight.

Gilbert - I'll scan the knots and post them tonight - got to crimp these suckers and put windows in a conservatory (glasshouse attached to house - not sure what you call them in your neck of the woods !). Cheers - might test my crimps too - do you think dropping a weight belt with them attached to something solid will work as a good test ? Say attach to something high, attach the other end to 14 pounds of lead and drop. Or will this berger it all up ?!

Cheers
Ed
 

portinfer

Aquatic shopper...
Jul 3, 2003
1,327
407
173
The original totem crimp with a loop knot to hold the line on- I prefer this to the way that it came - ie with just a quick release friction type knot.
 
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dave

Dicentrarchus labrax
Jan 13, 2003
497
187
133
The original Totem crimp is a doublebarrel crimp, fastened with a proper cup to cup crimping tool. The round crimps pictured with a point to cup tool are nowhere near as stong or as neat, and will fail at well below the rated strength of the mono, as the mono gets crushed in the sleeve
cheers
dave
www.spearo.co.uk
 

GilbertG.

New Member
Jul 28, 2004
113
23
0
Okay, I get it now Ed. Thanks for the pic. I'll try to do the testing ASAP. Stay tuned....

Gil
 

portinfer

Aquatic shopper...
Jul 3, 2003
1,327
407
173
The round crimps. Using two. Like Dave says not ideal but good enough for the afternoon.

Can I use double barrel crimps with the blue crimping pliers I have ?

Ed
 
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portinfer

Aquatic shopper...
Jul 3, 2003
1,327
407
173
The round crimps do squeeze the mono and will probably fail at about 30 pounds pull.

I tried the uni-knot (last pic above) for attaching the reel line to the mono. Looks quite strong.

Looks like I'll have to invest in a pair of decent crimping pliers and some barrel crimps after all ! Oh well, the money seems to be just rolling out at the moment.

Gil - I'll attach the pic of how the totem line came :

Cheers
Ed
 

portinfer

Aquatic shopper...
Jul 3, 2003
1,327
407
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I thnk the original line to mono join from totem was something like this - might be the other way around - but looks similar - anyone else know ? So that Gil can test - cheers Ed

Might be worth testing some round crimps too Gil. See when they give out compared to barrel crimps. Early I reckon - like Dave says.

Ed
 
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