Curious about Atlatl spearthrowers

[wet]

Ancient atlatls were widely used long before bow & arrows were developed. Atlatls allowed spearing much further and faster than regular spears, atlatl darts are narrow with sharp flint tips, when launched they flex side to side like a darting fish, with their momentum along the central axis.

Ancient harpoon bone tips have been found by anthropologists in the Congo and in Europe. These may have been simply attached to a stick spear, but possibly may have been part of a composite system of atlatl launcher, dart and replaceable foreshaft as later ones in Florida and Texas had.

When the navigator Christopher Columbus arrived in the Caribbean Sea, he saw Carib people using atlatls, and when the Spanish overtook the Aztecs they found that atlatl darts could penetrate their armor.

Recently atlatls were still used by some traditional people, the Australian aborigines used them for hunting, the Yupik Eskimos used them for seal hunting.

In the US atlatls are legal to spear rough fish in some states.

I am wondering if atlatls can or have been used underwater, or if only from shore or boats. I note that later atlatls included stone weights attached to the launcher, these possibly may have been for counter-buoyancy?

Before spearguns/pole spears/Hawaiian slings had springs/compressed gas/ rubber bands, were atlatls used by divers? Just curious.

The materials used were mostly gathered from waterside plants, darts from straight stalks of river cane.

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlatl]Atlatl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Precision Atlatl & Dart Systems - Atlatl.com - Atlatl Bob - Maker of Authentic Atlatl Systems

I met a guy last summer who made traditional atlatls, awesome craftmanship, the darts were 6'/ 2m long, they could be split into 2 pieces that fit with the launcher into a quiver (holder).

 

[willloomy]

I have actually looked into this to but i don't believe that they would work underwater very well i think there will be to much resistance to generate enough speed. however it might be worth a try, they aren't to difficult to make so you could try something it might work like an hawaiian sling but you wouldn't be able to use it in holes.

 

[wet]

I'm inclined to agree, atlatls don't seem to be very workable underwater, at least not on fast fish or in small pools. Neither do blowguns/darts or bow & arrows.

I just figured the first development of handheld thrusting spears and swung axes were in association with waterside ambushes on slow fish and game, and probing underwater shallows for benthic seafoods, where hydrodynamics would matter and buoyant clubs wouldn't work submerged.

Maybe the longer darts & throwing spears developed later on the plains, after waterside close-contact ambush techniques were perfected, with weapons that gradually reached much further with both accuracy and force, but depended upon firm ground contact for stability, unlike the thrusting spear.

The Hawaiian sling brings high-tension release underwater as does the bow in air, neither need firm ground contact stability, unlike atlatls & throwing spears which require the legs to be part of the launch maneuver.

So if I did make an aquatic atlatl, (aquatlatl?), it'd have to have a narrow strong sharp dart, and require minimal arm movements to avoid fighting the water, yet get enough tendon release to gain sufficient momentum. I'll keep it in mind.

 

[willloomy]

wet, you said what i was thinking much better than i could have

 

[Snooks]

I have thought about this for some time, as it was something that interested me. If the atlatl itself were flat and it could slice through the water, but your arm would still be slowed. It movement might also scare the fish. It should be possible to still give it a lot of power and speed.
In regards to the weights on an atlatl, I saw a video that mentioned that they were used to balance the atlatl and dart - so that the centre of balance is in the same position as your hand, when you are holding the atlatl. This would make the throw more accurate and certainly easier.
It might be harder throwing the dart underwater as you would be in a flatter position than throwing it on land.
If you do try it/have tried it, I would be really interested to see/hear the results!
Thanks!
Luke