• Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:

    • Join over 44,280+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
    • Participate in and browse from over 516,210+ posts.
    • Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
    • Post your own photos or view from 7,441+ user submitted images.
    • All this and much more...

    You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

defining The Perfect Breach

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Fondueset said:
My first attempts at breaching have been in 37F water. I advise against this unless you are able to completely clear the water and come back down head first.
Click to expand...
... and especially do not forget making a hole in the ice before breaching the surface!
 
He patented a streamline swim mask back in 1969. You can have a look at the patent here: STREAMLINE SWIM MASK - Google Patents
 
Gongwer's mask does have a certain 'medieval warrior gourd mask' appeal to it. That quality makes it reminiscent of the one I planned to use for my underwater propulsion-enhancing headwear:

 
'3.5m/s or just under 13km/hr by my numbers. Does anyone want to work out whether that's enough to clear the water, velocity-wise?'
Let me take a shot at that. At that speed and decelerating at 10 m/s that give you a time of about 1/3 second, average speed 3.5/2 or 1.75 meters for 1/3 second or not much more than half a meter. If you can maintain full thrust (600 w or 1 hp) for 1/3 second that will lift you about another .5 meters, more due to reducing water drag. Maybe with buoyancy you'll be able to hit the surface a little faster and even accelerate slightly as the form drag rapidly reduces to zero. So, my WAG is that the very best will be able to show their knees in a straight up attempt. The one who figures out how to get his head back in the water before his thighs come completely out will be able to do an aqua jump but a true breach seems unlikely......
 
I have done vertical (straight up) breaches reaching my knees, and this was with very crappy monofin technique, no core or leg strength, and so on. So, clearly there is HUGE room for improvement.

However, I think that the problem of breaching could be easily solved with a different kind of monofin. I called it the 'jump box' or jump plate. It is a solid piece of wood or metal, shaped similarly to a mono. You do not undulate with it. Rather, you step on it, like a board, and jump off it. The effect is similar to pushing off the wall in a swimming pool, except instead of pushing off the wall, you are pushing off a huge rigid plate.

The problem comes after you push. Then the plate must follow you, and there are many ways of accomplishing that. One is to make the plate collapsible, such that it folds once you start pulling it with you.

You could bring your knees to your chest in 0.5m of water, and then from a total standstill, jump straight out of the water, bringing your fin with you.

Using this method I think it would be possible to clear as much as 0.5m over the water.
 
I have seen Sam Still clear the water.... May even have a video, we did a few video attempts but i was only in the right place part of the time!! Case of top freediver vs average video operator

Bevan Dewar does a nice loop on the variable arch video. He doesnt ever come completely out of the water though as his head is back under before his fin is out... impressive though and a top video!!
 

Hey, that's against the rules! (what rules? ;-) Doesn't seem right somehow. Not sure why.

But can't Dr. Fish's PDF help in comparison to dolphins' leaps? See page 68 and 69 (inserted again). Anyone good with equations?

m g H = 0.5 m Ue2 + m g he = Pav ta
or...
Pav= m g H / ta

Where m is mass, g is gravitational acceleration (9.8 m/s2), H is maximum height of the dolphin's center of gravity from the water surface, Ue is the water exit velocity with the tail emerges, he is height of the center of gravity when the tail emerges, Pav is the average power expended during time ta, and ta is acceleration period.

Then Dr. Fish says (top of page 69): "Lang and Daybell (1963) calculated a Pav of 6264 W for a 181-kg dolphin to leap 2.1 m with a Ue of 6.4 m/s. This power output corresponds to a total mass-specific output of 34.5 W/kg, which is comparable to power outputs for actively swimming dolphins ..."

So if the human is about 1/2 the mass of the dolphin and with a speed also about 1/2, could the human leap 1/2 the H (1 meter) out of the water? With an H of 1 m center of gravity out of the water, a person could do a tight tuck and be free of the water.

Just a hunch.
 

Attachments

  • FishPDFp68.gif
    111.1 KB · Views: 137
  • FishPDFp69.gif
    47.2 KB · Views: 135

Rather than have rigid plates, go for a more biological than mechanical approach using something more akin to an umbrella. As you push down as per your idea with the plate it could force open and provide the "wall" to push off and then when it starts to follow you it would naturally close and follow you.......just like a squid type action/propulsion.

maybe one on each foot so that you could squat and get your body out of the water with one push and then use the other foot to propel you into the air.
 
Last edited:

There are MANY variants, including a plate with 100 thin strips which can spin and lock. The main idea is the concept of jumping off the water, rather than finning through it. Now someone please come up with a good, easy, low cost implementation!
 
AQUATIC BREACH RULES

With nothing better to do on a quiet Saturday, I drafted some Breach Rules. This is for Aquatic Breach vs. Aquatic Vault, which would be like high jump with crossbars/laser beams, etc. Different event, slightly different rules. I looked at the IAAF (track and field) and also the AIDA rules as reference. Then made it all up. Your comments are welcome.

* An aquatic breach is defined as the effort of a totally submerged individual using only his own power and natural air supply to breach or exit the water surface before descent and re-entry back into the water.

* A Complete Breach is defined as total clearance or exit of the water of all parts of the body including any attached appendages such as fins. No part of the body or appendage may be touching the water while athlete is in the air to qualify as a Complete Breach. A Partial Breach may have parts of the body/appendages remaining in the water at different times and locations.

* The water depth shall be a minimum of 3 meters for any breach attempt.

* The athlete may make his ascent toward the surface from any direction and in any manner (subject to all rules elsewhere herein stated)

* The amount of breach or surface clearance as measured in vertical height from water surface and/or time shall determine the success or failure of the attempt. If in a competition, the individual with the greatest vertical height and/or time as determined by officiating judges will be determined the winner.

* The athlete may not use for his propulsive or breaching advantage: the bottom (whether sand, rock, pool, etc.), any person, animal, boat, structure, or foreign object not permanently attached to his body and staying attached throughout the breach attempt including re-entry into the water by any part of the body. Normal freediving apparatus such as masks, noseclips, snorkels, and fins of any type are allowed.

* The athlete may not use for his advantage any buoyancy enhancing material or object in his breach attempt. This includes, but is not limited to: thermal protective material greater than 3mm thick, any foam or closed-cell materials, closed containers containing air or gas, ?????????. Normal freediving volumetric apparatus such as masks are allowed.

Whaddya think? -- HJ
 
thermal protective material greater than 3mm thick
Click to expand...

Its 6 degrees at the mo here.. brrr.

How about .... must be neutrally buoyant at x or something similar
 
I've done a breach where my I fly out of the water up to my knees and then flip my fin out of the water, but my head is already on it's way back in. Many years ago, a woman I was seeing had only been using a monofin for a couple of days and did the same kind of quasi breach with way more grace than I ever did (okay she was a good swimmer and uw hockey player). Her arc out of the water was lower and she kept on swimming forward, rather than crashing back down.

I think a real breach in which your monofin trailing edge clears the surface of the water before your momentum is halted by gravity is what we should all strive for because how awesome would that be!

Another off shoot of "The Breach" competition is artistic breaches. Think of the many ways whales flap their tails around. How about jumping out of the water and then immediately twisting onto your side and then touching the water with your lower hand. This could send you into a quick spin/cartwheel, if you were going fast enough.

The biggest issue I see is reducing drag. Learning how to breach is like breaking the sound barrier. It may require a different shape to get out of the water. Obviously, you'll want exceptional core muscles, but also a slippery shape as drag increases exponentially with increased speed.

Adding buoyancy isn't the solution. Eric and I tried wearing two suits without a weight belt. We had on more than 8mm of neoprene. Swimming down to 13m and leaving your weightbelt on the bottom was fun. Except for going back down to get it later. I don't think we did any better at breaching than I've done with no suit. It definitely increased our frontal drag.

I'd enter a competition of this nature in a heartbeat. I'm starting to train, now...

Pete
 
Anyone who has a monofin knows exactly why a whale breaches. Because it is so friggin fun! Not everyone can dive deep, but everyone can kick hard and fast to the surface for a breach.

I think breaching should be added to all competitions, even if it is only for fun and no records are awarded. It could also increase freediving's exposure as breaching competitions would allow for spectators to watch from boats -- easier to film too.
 

Good point. It would be fascinating to watch. Like half-pipe in snowboarding. Hey, how about a "breach course" like in steeplechase?
 
There is a new excellent video on the Lunocet's website showing a man breaching the surface. Disappointingly for Ted Ciamillo, it was not done with Lunocet, but ... with no fins at all! Watch it for yourself:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkLpM7HQ8SU]YouTube - Theme From Man From Atlantis (Sound Remastered)[/ame]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…