Dive time

[Antoine]

Hi,
I was wandering what is considered to be an acceptably long dive time.
I know this varies significantly due to several factors affecting breath hold in different conditions. However, what would be a "good" dive time in a location with no current, warmish water(20 degrees approx), diving vertically down and vertically back up, with NO prior breath-up or packing and on full lungs. Sorry about all these factors but I figured they all affect the dive time quite significantly.
Please tell me if i'm an idiot for asking such a question, but thanks to anyone who can give me a rough estimate.

 

[azapa]

There is no real answer to that question.

A good dive time, is one that lets you do what you want to do, and arrive safely back up top. 30 seconds if fine collecting sea food in shallow water.

I am sure most people could do 2:00 dives and survive if accompanied., the problem is they would black out every time.

 

[miguel-van]

A good dive time is a time where you feel good when you're back on the surface...

 

[Simos]

I know what you are asking - you have probably been improving a lot in freediving, are really excited about it and, naturally, a part of you wants to know how your diving fairs against the rest of the world to know how 'well' you are doing.

The word 'acceptably' is key in your sentence - acceptable by who? Say I tell you that for me a dive above 1:30 is 'long' or 'good' and you are doing 2 mins dives - does this mean anything? If I saw you dive and your technique needed a lot of improvement, you were not relaxed etc etc then I would tell you that 2 mins FOR YOU is not a good time.

I think you could try switching mindset a little and think about your diving in a different way. Don't 'judge' yourself by time, depth etc but rather 'observe' yourself, identify what needs improvement, how could you be more relaxed, learn from any experiences or mistakes and work on diving a little bit better every time.

This is a good way in my opinion to improve your diving. Personally I've come up from quite 'shallow' or 'short' dives feeling they were my best.

...and for those times you need to compare yourself against others, there are always freediving competitions ;-)

 

[Antoine]

I am certainly NOT in for competition and have absolutely NO intrest whatsoever in competing, NONE at all!, I have intense windsurf training and competitions just about every spare second in my life so I am totally and utterly fed-up of competition! I am fed up with every-bloody-thing having to be a competion. Anyway you get the jist!

What I meant, was that its annoying to dive, feel completely relaxed during the dive, suface, and have no idea whether I could/should push it, safely and enjoyably, further. I do not want to be going through discomfort and therefore not enjoy the dive and I don't particularly want to push it to BO. It would be lying to say nobody has an aim in terms of dive time, so my question is, for a relative beginner like me(who doesn't want to compete) approximately what could I aim for?

Thanks for that answer anyway Simos - very helpful. I'll definitly try to see my mistakes and try to improve them.(sorry for the harshness, I just can't stand it when people mention competition, I do enough of it as it is!)

 

[FreeRestriction]

Antoine i think from what ive read of you in various threads were of similar abilitys right now. So with that said my personal goal this summer which may be a little hopeful is to do comfortable 1:30 dives. I usually dive in water around 40ft deep. Right now for me a 1min dives pushin it but im pretty rusty since i havent dove before recently for 2 years so hopefully ill progress quickly. Im attending a dive course next month so hopefully ill learn a few tricks there.

 

[Antoine]

Thanks man,
-A clear answer without hammering that same *...* about being relaxed etc..., I know that stuff! All I want is a clear answer without any frills just as you've kindly given me.

Yeh, I think we're pretty much on par with each other. I'm going for a 15 metre (45ft) dive this afternoon and i'm going to see if I can COMFORTABLY stay down for a minute. I may go on a course to be able to stay down for longer because 1 minute feels like half a second when you're diving!

Once again, I don't mean to be rude to anyone, but I really like answers like your's which don't attemp to disguise the fact that everyone likes to compare themselves to know how they are going - PURELY for their own knowledge NOT to compete. How are you supposed to learn anything if you have no point of reference?

Thanks again

 

[FreeRestriction]

No problem Antione i know where your coming from so i knew exactly what you were looking for with your question. And i agree 1 minute seems pretty short when your diving down some depth and then returning to the surface. Not much time left for the bottom.

 

[azapa]

I disagree freerestriction. I have a great spearo buddy who does 50 second to 1:00 apneas at around 14 to 18m, he always brings home a ton of fish.

1m per second is the rate for a good diver, nice style and weighted correctly. You can get to 30m and back in 1:00

 

[FreeRestriction]

I disagree freerestriction. I have a great spearo buddy who does 50 second to 1:00 apneas at around 14 to 18m, he always brings home a ton of fish.

1m per second is the rate for a good diver, nice style and weighted correctly. You can get to 30m and back in 1:00

Its hard to explain what i mean but i guess within 1 minute your not really "hanging out" down there... Your kind of just down... look left... Look right... And back up you go. To me the feeling of a relaxed dive is when im not so restricted on time that i feel the clock ticking. Im not saying you cant spear fish... Id just like more time to enjoy the depths i suppose. Rather then be a short visiter to the depths id like to mingle and become a part of it for a short time.

 

[mystiach]

I don't think people are being deliberately obtuse in avoiding the question, Antoine, I just don't think freediving is the easiest sport for comparing beginners. Everyone's experience entering the sport is different and the physiology involved is complicated enough that you can't really get meaningful comparisons. Ex swimmers, synchro swimmers tend to have developed some CO2 tolerance already (most swimmers I know could bust out a 4 minute static) and won't struggle as much to start with. But, perhaps they have poor relaxation and a rubbish natural dive response so one year down the track the swimmer will be BOing at 4:30 whilst another newbie who couldn't do 2 minutes is past 5. Same goes for things like equalising. It's easy to get overconfident or discouraged based on early results that won't necessarily bear any relation to what you will be doing in another twelve or eighteen months.

In general, problems usually occur when people a) start to worry about what other divers are doing or b) get fixated on doing a certain number or time. Neither approach tends to end well. The best results usually happen (as has been said already) when you set your own personal targets that feel good for you and learn your body's responses - time what your comfort level is and seek to improve it rather than asking "can I be comfortable for X seconds".

+1 azapa

 

[Antoine]

Its hard to explain what i mean but i guess within 1 minute your not really "hanging out" down there... Your kind of just down... look left... Look right... And back up you go. To me the feeling of a relaxed dive is when im not so restricted on time that i feel the clock ticking. Im not saying you cant spear fish... Id just like more time to enjoy the depths i suppose. Rather then be a short visiter to the depths id like to mingle and become a part of it for a short time.

Totally agree with you on that Freerestriction. For me, a one minute dive feels like time has just accelerated by a factor of at least 3. Probably because I'm a relative beginner and therefore I am sort of 'excited' down there and enjoying it so much that time just vaporises.
Sadly, I look at all the fish down there and wish I could just swim around for ten more minutes to take it all in! To do that you need scuba gear and that just defeats the purpose! I'm afraid we just need to accept we're not fish or dolphins!

 

[Antoine]

I don't think people are being deliberately obtuse in avoiding the question, Antoine, I just don't think freediving is the easiest sport for comparing beginners. Everyone's experience entering the sport is different and the physiology involved is complicated enough that you can't really get meaningful comparisons. Ex swimmers, synchro swimmers tend to have developed some CO2 tolerance already (most swimmers I know could bust out a 4 minute static) and won't struggle as much to start with. But, perhaps they have poor relaxation and a rubbish natural dive response so one year down the track the swimmer will be BOing at 4:30 whilst another newbie who couldn't do 2 minutes is past 5. Same goes for things like equalising. It's easy to get overconfident or discouraged based on early results that won't necessarily bear any relation to what you will be doing in another twelve or eighteen months.

In general, problems usually occur when people a) start to worry about what other divers are doing or b) get fixated on doing a certain number or time. Neither approach tends to end well. The best results usually happen (as has been said already) when you set your own personal targets that feel good for you and learn your body's responses - time what your comfort level is and seek to improve it rather than asking "can I be comfortable for X seconds".

+1 azapa

Thanks Mystiach for that concise answer.

I think people misinterpret my interest in comparison. The main reason I want to do so is to see if i am doing things at least vaguely right. I won't lie, at the moment I can't comfortably exceed one minute dives and I don't aim to try to exceed that on the basis that other people can. I just wanted to understand approximately what I can look forward to in the future otherwise I probably will never end up progressing, always accepting mediocrity for being acceptable.

As for giving up due to a fixation with numbers and other peoples' performances, I have a notorious reputation for relentless determination. So far, I can never recall griving up anything I have every started. So I expect to freedive till I kick the bucket! (even if I never get passed one minute dives!)

 

[Ms Mer]

Sadly, I look at all the fish down there and wish I could just swim around for ten more minutes to take it all in! To do that you need scuba gear and that just defeats the purpose! I'm afraid we just need to accept we're not fish or dolphins!

VERY frustrating but a very true statement!! As much as I also wish those gills to appear, I'm still waiting!

 

[Ms Mer]

Do you train with a group Antoine or with a friend? Doing so (especially with experienced divers) might help with getting some better indications for yourself as to how you are doing, if you are in the right ball park so to speak.

 

[Antoine]

I dive and train with a friend. He is also on this forum as TomW.

I would love to get with sydney freedivers but as usual, I have not a split second of spare time! Why does everything always come down to a lack of time!

With regards to "how i am going" I won't say another word coz every time I mention anything in that domain, I get shat on! I don't blame anyone for doing so really. I totally see where they are coming from. However, I have thouroughly gotten the jist!

 

[azapa]

I think patience and dedication are the keys to longer safer dives. It takes years (like 3 or 4) of solid diving and training to take a safe 1:00 dive to a safe 1:30 dive.

BTW: i am talking in relative terms here, your starting (before much training) and eventual safe dive times will of course be very individual.

To quantify dedication: 2 x week pool, 2 weekends/month ocean and general exercise between. I have never seen anyone get better by magic without that. The exception may be statics, as the gear and style part (and open water fear many have) are excluded from the equation.

 

[FreeRestriction]

I think patience and dedication are the keys to longer safer dives. It takes years (like 3 or 4) of solid diving and training to take a safe 1:00 dive to a safe 1:30 dive.

BTW: i am talking in relative terms here, your starting (before much training) and eventual safe dive times will of course be very individual.

To quantify dedication: 2 x week pool, 2 weekends/month ocean and general exercise between. I have never seen anyone get better by magic without that. The exception may be statics, as the gear and style part (and open water fear many have) are excluded from the equation.

Wouldnt it be different when your talking about some one whos not diving to their full physical potential? Think of me like a car. Its relatively fast car but i cant drive for crap. Im not doing clean fast shifts at the rev limiter.. Im short shiften and missing gears. If i just learn to drive better my times will increase.... I know my body can do safe dives beyond 1 minute i just need to get the mind controlling the body correctly.
The horse powers already under the hood the driver just sucks.

 

[azapa]

Sorry FR, I don't quite get your example. The single best way to accelerate your progress, (I guess that is what this thread is all about?) is by doing a course with an well recommended instructor.

 

[FreeRestriction]

Sorry FR, I don't quite get your example. The single best way to accelerate your progress, (I guess that is what this thread is all about?) is by doing a course with an well recommended instructor.

Yep i agree.. My point is i need to be taught alot still. Im going to attend as many courses as the girlfriend will allow.