Diver below...

[island_sands]

i listened to someone go off on a large Anti-PADI soap box recently, on many matters. One of them was the "diver down flag". He was saying how the red and white dive flag as we know it, was an invention by PADI and is now used and sold worldwide - which recognises it as an exceptional marketing tool and also a tool for commercial gain. There is nowever, also this story..
http://www.dive-flag.com/

he went on to say how the International Maritime Signal Flag which means "diver below", (show below) - is the only one that should be used.

he also went on to say how he never understood why dive centres fly the red flag even when they are returning to the dive centre (are they dragging a diver below?) rofl

anyway, i would like to hear your thoughts on the matter.. as should we not be using the proper blue and white flag while diving?

or

 

[Fondueset]

First - the diver down flag was invented by a scubie right here in lil' ole Michigan Far as I know he was a person, and not a PADI (or a NAUI for that matter).

As I understand it the blue and white flag is used on boats tending a dive operation. A lot of times they just fly the red and white one - but the blue and white one should also be flown.

I've also understood the red and white flag to be mainly in this hemisphere - and that the blue and white one is more International - but I think I'm wrong about that.

Anyway - I think its just BS that its some profit conspiracy by PADI and since it's out there we may as well stick with it. When in doubt fly both! Fat lotta good it'll do you against jet skis.

Technically the flag should be taken down when no divers are in (or about to get in) the water.

 

[ILDiver]

I think the Blue and White was an international flag used on boats, but divers wanted a flag to mark themselves. It was discussed on here before, but I think in the Wisconsin forum.

I'll have to go dig around and see what it says.

Edit: After reading I.S.'s link and the Fat Boy Scuba site, it is as I recall, an idividual looking to keep himself safe. I've heard some anti-PADI stuff but come on. I guess it's like any anti-Big Corp stuff, it does not have to make sense to anyone but the person spouting it. They treat anything they negative they hear oar anything they think they know as gospel truth.

 

[kmo]

A club member here in West Aus was run down and badly injured while spearing on offshore FAD. He was flying the international blue and white flag on his boat and towing a float (I'm not sure if the float had a flag too). To cut a long story short, the guy who ran him down was never charged with coming within 50m of a dive flag because the victim was freediving, not scuba diving and we are not covered by the flag!!

P.S I think it is stupid to use a blue and white flag in a blue and white ocean against a blue and white sky, but no-one knows what the red and white one means here and they might drive up to the boat to ask.

 

[ILDiver]

So, the diver is not covered by the flag, then Aus authorities will not fine a freediver for not using a flag? Amazing.

In the US if you are outside a swimming zone without a flag you get fined, freediver or scuba. I thought in the Wisconsin board some people talked about how you can dive in a no swim lake as long as you have a flag because you are diving, not swimming.

 

[Magpie]

When m,aking my float I couldn't decide which flag to use, so went for both:

 

[Fondueset]

Here there is a specific size and height dimension in order for the flag to be legal. I have mine set a little higher than the mandatory height - about a meter. My dive buddy has constructed a ridiculous float that looks like one of those tacky drinks you get on a cruise ship. He's got two full sized flags each on a meter long pole sticking out at slight angles in opposite directions. He also hand made a flag that says DIVER in huge letters with an arrow pointing down.

The Statute here says anyone using any sort of diving equipment must use a flag - a snorkel, mask and fins qualify. My guess is the Australian law could be challenged.

 

[azapa]

here in chile it's the red/white jobbie. I'm sure that fact alone will influence international perception and bring about an instantaneous unanimity in the diving world.

or not?

 

[kelp princess]

hi ms. sands - the blue and white flag is actually an international nautical ALPHA flag - or letter A.

International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea and the United States Inland Navigation Rules provide for an elaborate series of day-shapes and lights to be displayed by large vessels whose maneuverability is restricted by the conduct of underwater operations, such as cable-laying, dredging, or conducting diving operations. Smaller vessels that are not able to hoist the complex signals used by large ships are instead required to display a rigid version of the International Code of Signals flag for the letter "A," known as ALPHA, at least one meter high if diving operations restrict their ability to maneuver. Not all boats from which divers are swimming are necessarily so restricted. Generally, only vessels to which the divers are physically connected by communication lines, air hoses, or the like are affected by this requirement. It does not apply to most instances of sport diving, where the divers are swimming free of the vessel. As recent Coast Guard Notices to Mariners emphasize: "The ALPHA flag is a navigational signal intended to protect the vessel from collision."

By contrast, the red and white diver-down flag, originally devised in the United States, is intended to protect divers themselves. This flag is often referred to as unofficial or voluntary because it is not mandated by the international or inland rules of the road. This assertion is erroneous. The use of the diver down flag is required by state law or regulation in virtually every state of the Union, as well as by various Federal agencies exercising jurisdiction over waters where diving takes place (such as the National Park Service) and by the Canadian Occupational Safety and Health Regulation. Typically, the laws or regulations on the use of this flag require divers to display the flag and to remain within a specified distance of it when they are near the surface. This often means the flag is best mounted on a float or buoy near the actual dive point rather than on the boat itself. Restrictions vary from state to state, but typically include a zone around the flag where no other boats are allowed and a second, larger zone in which their speed is limited. A number of states also prohibit the display of the diver-down flag when a diver is not actually in the water.

Since PADI and other dive agencies originated in the US and then spread globally I'm sure that the use of the red diver-down flag picked up ubiquity as the sport and their locations spread.

and like most tools and rules, some people use them properly and some people don't.

but to answer your question - i think that IF you are diving from a boat then YES you should use the alpha flag, and it prolly wouldn't hurt to use the red and white diver down flag too! rofl

and if you are just freediving from a float or from shore i would suggest using the red & white diver down flag. but i'd be curious to hear if you think that people in Dubai know what that means?

either way be safe


kp

 

[Amphibious]

Ooooo, another McPadi rant thread. this should be interesting