Diving straight down in murkey waters, no line

[azapa]

I was bottom spearing in about 12 to 14M in 1 to 2M viz at the weekend. No line as guide.

I would get terribly disoriented at about 6 to 10M and not know where the hell I was going, the resulting effort and worry made for very high 02 consumption.

I am trying not to look down, head in neutral position for streamlining and EQ, but in these cases it is almost impossible.

Tips Please. Thanks

 

[naiad]

I had a similar experience scuba diving. The viz was less than 1m, and it was hard to know where I was going, even in a depth of just 6 or 7m. At least there was a line, and no currents.

Sorry I haven't got any tips, maybe someone who is used to these conditions can help.

 

[demasoni]

Check this out post from Eric F.

http://forums.deeperblue.net/genera...ght-down-without-looking-down.html#post597283

 

[sheepeck]

Hi Josh.
I think Azapa's concern is quite related to low visibility of the waters he is diving in. There he cannot use "trampoline" theory I guess.
Plus - disorientation can be BIG in his conditions - remember your dive to 50+ that day at Molokini when I was your safety diver - we lost each other no matter visibility was almost ten times better than in Azapa's area.
I think that usage of line in his case is necessary (advisable at least) as it was in ours.

 

[azapa]

Demasoni: indeed that is a great thread, thanks! Thanks for responding too Naiad.

Sheepeck: maybe it's useful to mention that I never have had this problem before, I always have an easy relationship surface/bottom. Just this weekend it happened. I have also just taken to keeping an eye on the surface light through the bottom of my mask as I dive as a trick to maintain a neutral head position.
My very bad solution was to look down, and dive where it was "darkest" (but straining my neck and making EQ harder at same time...)

 

[demasoni]

Hey Petr! How's it going?

I agree, we definitely needed a line that day, but Azapa is spearing and it seems the bottom is between 12-14m during his hunt. Maybe he could use a line while spearing?

BTW, at Molo, the next greatest worry was not having the flag so after surfacing we'd have to dodge the "cattlemarans"! I can't believe I did what I did in the pursuit of deeper water... :naughty

 

[sheepeck]

No good - temperatures around freezing point so no outside diving at all.

Well, I personally cannot dive with chin properly tucked to chest unless I'm diving at the line. If without - then I almost all the time look the direction I dive.
I would use a line. But if you say - you never had that problem, than who knows?

 

[hteas]

Most of my diving when spearfishing is without a rope, and in low visibility. I fairly regularly dive down and discover that the bottom is sloping very steeply. When I turn upright I discover that the steep slope was me, not the bottom : o
On a related note, diving the ropes at Hounaunau in Kona I discovered myself swimming horizontally down the rope. While followint the rope I could see the bottom way down there, and look back between my fins at the surface, but the sensastion was absolutely that I was swimming horizontally along a vertical rope.
I guess Eric F is right, but I sure haven't learned the secret yet.
Howard

 

[Erik]

You should be looking where you're going if you don't know where the bottom is, no? I dive in terrible vis most of the time, and 'perfect' body position, equalisation etc is not usually an option. Don't stress about it in my opinion.
If I was just freediving, then I'd certainly be on a line. If I'm spearfishing (all I do anymore), then there's a line betwen the gun and the float at the surface. The vis we're in at a few lakes here means that at -15 metres it's so dark you can't tell up from down, so there must be some sort of reference line to the surface or it could mean death.

 

[atomichaggis]

Hehe... sounds like diving in a bloom here in the warmer months. sometimes the layer of algae is 10 metres deep and though the water is crystal underneath, it is so dark down there... really creepy... I love it.
It can be really disorientating tho... when you judge your speed wrong and the bottom never seems to appear or comes rushing up at you out of nowhere.
Worst it ever got there was only a couple of feet of clear water on the bottom and I went face first into millions of ugly brittlestars and sediment... then bolted for the surface, heart racing
You can keep track of the surface with your chin tucked in, if it is sunny enough up there but you need to keep a hand in front of your head incase you bang yourself out on a rock or something... I almost impaled myself on a big pointy anchor so not always too clever.
I've never tried it but I reckon ff you wanna look where you are going or you can't track the surface then you could prolly keep something bouyant on you to show you which way is up... little float keyring trinket or something... and don't get scared now

 

[azapa]

Thanks guys. I was spearing and have my gun arm fully extended on diving. The spear hits anything before my head does, although "touch-downs" are often quite hard and surprising.

Going up is no problem once at the bottom: a good push with the speargun and my over-bouyancy does the rest.

 

[..Sam..]

If you have any problems knowing which way is up just blow a small bubble, if it starts going down then you know your either in a really strong down current or your upside down. Just follow the bubbles.


Cheers, Sam.

 

[Erik]

If you have any problems knowing which way is up just blow a small bubble, if it starts going down then you know your either in a really strong down current or your upside down. Just follow the bubbles.


Cheers, Sam.

Not where I dive. Can't see the bubbles.

 

[sciencemike]

I've never tried it but I reckon ff you wanna look where you are going or you can't track the surface then you could prolly keep something bouyant on you to show you which way is up... little float keyring trinket or something... and don't get scared now

A small piece of mono around your wrist with a "bobber" on it to keep reference is what i have heard, or some like a small lead weight, they seem to get affected less by current and your movenments. The only problems people say is when going down a bobber is bad, and going up a weight is bad. because they stick to you. So if you have trouble going down use a small lead weight. and follow it. If its up you need then use a small bobber. maybe one for each wrist.

 

[efattah]

You can practice diving with:
A) no mask or goggles = no vision
or
B) eyes closed

I recommend always having one arm extended, and don't descend too fast. Worst case you gently hit your head (happened to me before).

In many cases of bad visibility, diving with eyes totally closed can be more relaxing.

I recommend using your extended arm in front of your mask, to prevent a rock from dislodging your mask.

Also, even in total darkness, you can tell up from down, if you concentrate (it takes a bit of practice). Just concentrate on the feeling inside your head, and in your lungs/stomach.

 

[sheepeck]

I will try diving with closed eyes. Have to wait till spring though.

 

[azapa]

thanks again for the great comments. The eyes closed idea I have practiced in the upper part of the dive when the waters were clearer, mainly as a tool for deep relaxation. Knowing the bottom is way off, no fear of hitting it, it was easy.

On Sunday I knew the bottom was way off also, so what was the difference?
I am therefore puzzled as to why I was getting so lost, and coming to the conclusion that I was simply dwelling on the issue and phsycing myself into the problem.

I am pretty sure the bubbles and small weights idea, although sounding good, would not work. There is current and forward motion that will negate all these indicators that might otherwise work for a static scubie.

I need to jump in the water again badly and practice, but i'll not even be seeing the ocean for 10 days sniff snif...

thanks again

 

[atomichaggis]

A small piece of mono around your wrist with a "bobber" on it to keep reference is what i have heard, or some like a small lead weight, they seem to get affected less by current and your movenments. The only problems people say is when going down a bobber is bad, and going up a weight is bad. because they stick to you. So if you have trouble going down use a small lead weight. and follow it. If its up you need then use a small bobber. maybe one for each wrist.

I'm just imagining having both a lead and a little float on lines, getting halfway down into the murk then they are at 45 degrees to one another or pointing in the same direction... PANIC!
Perhaps i didn't think it through enough. the only thing that scares me in the green is jellies... and brittlestars eww.

 

[atomichaggis]

In many cases of bad visibility, diving with eyes totally closed can be more relaxing.

Good point... I get really disorientated on surface swims when there is a bloom on and closing my eyes makes it stop... as does stopping swimming.
Neither of which helps me get where I'm going tho lol.

 

[hyeparis]

I dive under this bridge it is about six meters deep and then you move horizontally to a cave for another two or three meters, trying to stay along the wall. The viz is about two-three meters at surface, but then at six it drops to about one meter and it is dark in the cave. My breath holding ability in such condition is reduced by about 30-40 percent. It is because I get nervous when I cannot see much and being nervous increased my consumption of oxygen. I also lose orientation when I o up from cave, often re-surfacing several meters from the bridge even though I was thinking I would pop up right under it. The strong current factors in, but also the fact that I cannot see much at the bottom.
I lost orientation almost imediatedly when scuba diving under ice too and I relied on the line to get back.