DIY carbon fiber

[milhouse]

Hi,

I want to try to make some carbon fiber barrels, and would like to have some infos/links on how to work with this stuff. Please don't tell me to buy these barrels instead of build them. I LOVE to try new things, and want to learn how to work this stuff, so why not start on a barrel?

Thanks for the positive answers!!!

 

[Lachlan]

Hi,

I have never worked with carbon but have some ideas. Maybe ask a rod blank builder for some tips on making the barrels. I have heard of spearo's getting carbon barrels made from fishing rod companies. I think the carbon sheet is wrapped around a tube in special ways (uni-directional for strength??) and impregnated with glues. Don't quote me on that though!!

Hope this helps. Keep us updated on any info you find.

Catchya, Lachlan

 

[rigdvr]

All I know about carbon barrels comes from my 2 Daryl Wond carbon hybrids. Daryl sources his from a company that builds carbon parts for racing motorcycles because they tend to be thicker than traditional carbon tubes. I had a nice cross section of the tubes he uses but it was lost in hurricane Katrina...it was quite thick.

I think the most important things if you are going to build your own would be cloth selection, thickness and avoiding voids that would cause stress failure. I would bet there would be some vacume impregnating of the resin and cloth...sounds like quit an undertaking. I would bet Sven would know something about this, if he doesnt chime in here soon pm him(icarus pacific)

 

[Dobs]

My 2 cents:
I've red somewehre that good quality carbon barrels like the ones of C4 for example, are made under enormous pressure, that cannot be easily achieved at home.

 

[water baby]

hi,
i don't know if the will be to large a diameter, but i some times use the broken tips from windsurfer masts as struts. They are resonably strong and you can pick them up for a few bucks or even for a beer from windsurfing schools/shops. They taper quite a bit so just the tips probably.
good luck dude,
Simon

 

[spaco]

hi!
try and google up something using words like carbon fibre, vacuum bagging,..
i would post you some links but they got lost in the process of formatting my pc. i'm sure you'll find something you can use. i never tried myself at making barrells but learned a lot on laminating fibre etc.(made a pair of carbon fins which turned out quite good bot a bit too soft)
good luck!
primoz

 

[miles]

Hiya

Just a word of caution!! Should you barrel break, your muzzle is going to most probably HIT you in the face!!!! So make sure that its strong enough!!

Regards
miles

 

[Huan]

Carbon is one of the materials that if used incorrectly is weaker and heavier than an alloy barrel.
Any fault in the lay-up will as miles says be brutally exposed as the bands try to pull the barrel into a U shape.
Carbon is hard to work with compared with Fibreglass, however good luck in your quest to make a barrel.

 

[Baka]

Most carbon fishing rods that are used are made using at least 1 or 2 million pounds of pressure per square inch (PSI). And these still break easily, to have some carbon fiber the size you need would require a horribly insane amount of pressure to make it rigid enough. I had a bow that was carbon fiber break on me as i was about to shoot a carp. The bowstring opened up my forearm like a knife would, imagine what a spear would do. Any outside scratches or nicks signifcantly reduces the strength of the carbon fiber too. Good luck on your search though.

 

[milhouse]

Hum...

That sound so hard to do! Miles, your point of view, regarding the fact that it's almost impossible to make the perfect job, is enough to discourage me :waterwork

There are these things we must left to the pros

 

[bluedvr]

this is a link to Ocean kayak i think the principle your looking for will apply here

http://www.oneoceankayaks.com/Wshophtm/carb_tubing.htm

 

[socalspearo]

Although the info @ the ocean kayak site is interesting, i wouldn't attempt to use that method to make a speargun tube. Generally, composite shafts are made using a filament winder which is basically just a computer controlled spool of carbon fiber that traverses up and down the shaft releasing line onto the shaft as it rotates. The computer controls how fast the spool traverses relative to the angular rotation of the shaft in order to control the angle at which the fiber is wound. This allows tight winding and precise control of the composite lay-up. The lay-up of the composite shaft is critical to determine the strength, stiffness, and most of all fracture toughness of the shaft (low fracture toughness = catastrophic failure, high fracture toughness = visible crack propagation and delamination before failure).

The resulting strength is also highly dependant on how the tube is cured. Generally, the fiber is wound around a mandrel which will expand when heated (metal) to squeeze out any inclusions (air) in the lay-up and then the entire unit is placed in a high-temp/high pressure autoclave to cure. This should remove most imperfections and the expanded mandrel stretches the fibers into a pre-stressed condition to ensure maximum stiffness. Once cooled the metal mandrel will simply slide out of the tube.

Basically, it takes considerable equipment and expertise to build a reliable and safe tube...so it might not be worth the effort.

 

[stoneshot]

Milhouse,

I have a little experience at working with plastics and spearguns(60 to date). I recently built my son a 48" shooter using hand laid 24 oz glass(10 layers) and a high tensile strength heat cured polymer resin. Although it was layed up in the mold under pressure then sandwiched together under a vaccum the principal will also work with epoxy and carbon weave. To achieve a strong cure and a bubble free finish you will have to degas the epoxy and cure the parts under pressure & heat. The box that would need to be built for a barrel could be very expensive, I am lucky and have a machinist/welder as a partner .

You should be able to find carbon tubing on the net somewhere try a website that specializes in parts for ultralight planes.

 

[milhouse]

The process seems way too much for me. I will continue to buy guns and work wood, it's so simple!

 

[ajwaverider]

You could probaly do it but why limit yourself to a tube shape?Carbon tube is expensive and making one that came out right would cost you a pretty penny aswell so why not try a diffrent shape or use a preshape to glass over so you would't need a mold.Just an idea . AJ

 

[killertuna]

The process seems way too much for me. I will continue to buy guns and work wood, it's so simple!

Or, you could just do like I do: Build the gun out of wood and laminate it with carbon to make it look cool!

 

[milhouse]

The idea is not really for a cool look. It's nice to have a good-looking gun, and I can build a nice wood gun. I was looking for a cheap way to make a standard long barrel, learning how to work carbon fiber at the same time, but it seems very, very more complicated than I tought it was at first.

By the way, other than Subcomposite, does anyone know a carbon fiber tubing manufacturer?

 

[Orangekiwi]

here is a link to a manufacturer of carbon fiber tubing. cost is approx 25 - 30
% less then retail at a spearfish shop here in NZ. Appearantly this company manufactures for a euro made speargun brand.

www.kilwell.co.nz/Fibretube.htm

i've added up all cost and would not be able to beat price of buying all loose components versus buying complete gun.
What I have been wondering about carbon guns is the mass(weight ) of them. reading all the threads of homemade guns they talk about the guns having enough mass to counter any recoil. Would this eventually happen to a carbon gun if you power it up enough?

 

[Ron Bakker]

I have not made any barrels as such, but I have made my own guides on carbon blanks and plugged them too. The guns I make are a fraction heavier than factory issue guns, but also very strong.

http://www.ronsseacorner.co.nz/article_halfrail.htm

 

[andysodyssey]

Hi , here is something that you may not of thought of , boat builders have been using carbon fibre and timber composites for years to build high strength low cost racing boats mainly in high stress areas were low weight is of great importance ,mainly masts etc , I myself have been keen to try building timber carbon fibre composite guns myself and for some time and have already sucessfully been building guns using several layers of timber and fibre glass and it seem the next obvious step to take, so far these guns have been both easy to build and very sucessfull and carbon fibre should allow me to make guns of a smaller diameter than previuosly, I sure that you could devise simple tests to measure the amount of flex safely in such a gun and there must be information on the web about strenghts and weeknesses of carbon,if you had the money you could build a barrel and test it to destruction by loading to destruction in both directions with known weights