Dizziness

[glass]

I've noticed that whenever i'm lying on a bed or sitting on a couch and i get up and begin to walk away i get a strong feeling of dizziness or even begin to loose vision. I just tried Eric's ATRC test; i was sitting on a wooden chair, stood up, inhaled fully and began packing. I felt fine after a few seconds and began to exhale but then the next things i knew i woke up semi-concious on the chair shaking and in pain from the impact. I'm really worried now, about both the samba and the dizziness i feel when getting up. Low bp maybe? Help!

 

[trux]

There are principally two types of dizziniess (or blackout) in breath-holding. Well, better told three, but the first two are usually connected:

1) Beginning of the breath-hold
a) Hyperventilation - it leads to constricttion of the carotids and hence cerebral hypoxemia
b) Packing - it reduces heart working volume, and hence blood throughput. It induces certain level of hyperventilation (even if you do not strongly heprventilate beforhand), and hence can add the above effect too. The brain is not supplied properly

2) End of the breath-hold
Your blood is desaturated and after starting to breathe, the blood pressure drops significantly, hence again brain is not properly supplied and you can easily blackout. Most blackouts happen after the apnea, not during it. Proper recovery breathing (hook breath) can help. Standing up just after apnea is not really a wise behaviour, unless you are experimenting in safe conditions.

Stay safe, have a spotter (at least in water), and do not hold your breath in unsafe conditions (driving, running, walking, standing on hard floor or in proximity of obstacles)!

 

[TimoP]

I have done two a little extreme experiments: Shall I get dizziness, samba or even or BO (I never have had one), if I stand up in a situation, where is it not a good idea :blackeye. So don't try these:

A) Packing and apnea walking only few hours after a blood donation (blood loss about 0.5 l, means about under 10 %):
-sitting in a chair, relaxing, packing quite a lot, standing up slowly and apnea walking. Just after 5 steps I almost blacked out (dizziness, samba and almost losing my vision). I think, because of a loss of blood and standing up after packing there was not enough blood pressure for brains.:naughty

B) Standing up and apnea walking it the end of pb dry static:
This I did just yesterday! I'm not good in static, it has been hard to get 3 mins because I feel that static contractions are quite bad. Now I have done harder training => easier static. I was lying on a coach, first I did a FRC-static CO2-table, then 5 min rest, packing and started static. I didn't feel bad at all. After 4 min (still apnea) I made the test: I stand up quicly, take a fast apnea walk for 20 s, stopped at 4:20, exhaled. No problem at all, everything extremely clear, like I would have done an easy 2 min static in bed. I was really surprised, cause that was my dry STA pb (so far), and I took that risky test in the end of it. So this was static+ apnea walking 4:20. I felt very strange that easiness and that very clear end, though I had stood up quicly from horizontal position. But I was happy of course, because it was my first easy pb static, though with apnea walking !

 

[5kgLifter]

TimoP, I know you've suggested that people should not do the two items that you mention in your post above, but I felt that it was wise to explain to everyone that, on no account should a person, after having done a static laying down flat on their back, stand up and go for a walk even whilst still in apnea or just breathing ordinarily. This is not a good practice, for more information see the book 'Anatomy of Hatha Yoga' by Coulter, in which it is explained that a person should rest in the supine position, on their left side, for at least a minute in order to allow the blood flow/pressure to normalise. Essentially, when a person is doing a dry static (or wet) they are in a meditative state, which means that blood flow has gone from the extremities to the internal organs, which is why blankets are considered a must when doing Nidra (a deep meditation); and standing up after either practice without taking the necessary precautions is very unwise and even dangerous. I know this from personal experience, when the telephone rang at the end of a Nidra session, and I thought 'okay' and got up and nearly passed out on the spot...so, relaxing and allowing the blood to get back to the extremities by moving gently is a wiser and much safer option.

 

[TimoP]

I really recommend nobody to do these kind of risky tests. The backround here was, that I don't get easily dizzyness, and rarely if I get a samba, I still don't feel like, that I'm near BO (which can occur any time, I know). So I wanted to test how far I must go to get bad dizzyness and samba, but dry only, of course. After blood donation - case was really unwise extreme, I know now not to do it again. In fact I knew it beforehand, but i was too eager to test.

Never do risky tests in water, and better not to do dry, also.

 

[glass]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I agree that the tests are dangerous but i was curious. I was reading past posts where eric talked about the 'ability to retain consciousness' test and said he wouldn't dive if he scored himself any less than an 8. It got me worried that when i did it i had a samba (failing the test) and i'm wondering if it's something i should be worried about? The dizziness i experience when getting up from a chair or lying down it's not after apnea, just breathing normally. Should i be worried?

 

[Kajojek]

I have this reaction too, after just sitting infront of a computer or lying on bed and then standing up my vision often goes slowly white and I'm close to loosing conciousness. It is followed by this weird feeling in my head. (Similar to when you sit on your leg and it goes numb) Maybe the brain isnt getting enough blood? I never worried too much about it...

 

[TimoP]

People with very low blood pressure when resting, easy get this kind of dizziness. Low blood pressure is good for health, but has this kind of effect, too. If you have low blood pressure and you get easy dizziness, I suppose, you easier get samba or even BO in some freediving situations. But i don't know much about it, because I don't have low blood pressure.

Dry "normal" dizziness isn't dangerous (if you don't fall and hurt you self), but blacking out in water is a fatal situation, if there is nobody helping you up. That's the difference.

So if you do long or deep freediving, you must have a good spotter. Tell to your spotter, that you may have samba and BO maybe easier than an average freediver. Plan and train these samba/BO situations beforehand in water, so if /when it happens, spotter do the right things instantly.

 

[Kajojek]

I think thats correct, even when I go skiing in and really warm my hands freeze very quickly. People I'm with can ski without gloves while I'm the only one cold hehe. I guess I need to drink a little alcohol before...

 

[Mullins]

I felt that it was wise to explain to everyone that, on no account should a person, after having done a static laying down flat on their back, stand up and go for a walk even whilst still in apnea or just breathing ordinarily....

Essentially, when a person is doing a dry static (or wet) they are in a meditative state, which means that blood flow has gone from the extremities to the internal organs...

and standing up after either practice without taking the necessary precautions is very unwise and even dangerous. I know this from personal experience, when the telephone rang at the end of a Nidra session, and I thought 'okay' and got up and nearly passed out on the spot...so, relaxing and allowing the blood to get back to the extremities by moving gently is a wiser and much safer option.

Why would bloodshift make it dangerous to stand up? On the contrary, redistribution of blood from the extremities to the core is going to protect you from losing consciousness. It's probably just low BP that's making you dizzy.

 

[trux]

Why would bloodshift make it dangerous to stand up? On the contrary, redistribution of blood from the extremities to the core is going to protect you from losing consciousness. It's probably just low BP that's making you dizzy.

Yes, Dave, that's right, but the problem is when you start exhaling, as the initial poster did. The blood pressure after the end of apnea drops abruptly, hypoxia is high and continues worsening, so in a standing position the probability of blackout is increased. And it may be also similar after relaxation - I am not sure how exactly it is with vasoconstriction or vasodilatation during the mediatation, but when you abort it, the blood-shift may also release, chaning so the BP too. The BP is already down due to a very slow HR (despite the bloodshift), so I think 5kg is right the standing up will cut the supply of the brain easily.

 

[glass]

Interesting... According to my logic standing up after apnea would take blood away from the vital organs rather than the other way around. e.g. doing a lying down apnea; vasoconstriction concentrates blood in your brain and other vital organs. Then when reaching then end of your breath-hold and oxygen levels in your brain are already low, you stand up and exhale causing your blood vessels to dilate and blood to be pulled back into your limbs by the force of gravity, further lowering oxygen levels in your brain. Maybe this effect is only a concern for people like me (with low bp), or not at all. I could be 100% wrong :head

 

[5kgLifter]

I don't suffer from low blood pressure, and have still experienced this dizziness when getting up too quickly from a deep meditative state. Here's what the book Anatomy of Hatha Yoga says, it may help explain:

The venous return and cardiac output may not be sufficient enough to supply the brain after doing supine relaxation. Turning on to the left side before you sit up will momentarily increase blood flow from the vena cava (on the right side of the heart) into the right atrium and tend to keep cardiac output high enough to prevent fainting. (Coulter, 2001:548).

 

[Mullins]

Sounds like they're talking about low BP to me - it doesn't matter too much if you suffer from it normally or not, you'll still get rather low BP by lying down and doing statics.

 

[shotgun]

The dizziness i experience when getting up from a chair or lying down it's not after apnea, just breathing normally. Should i be worried?

Hi Glass, you might want to read up on Ménière's disease. It is a disorder in the inner ear. I have it and it is terrible sometimes; dizziness, nausea, inability to focus my eyes. A telltale sign for me is I get strong ringing in the ear (or ears) when it starts. I have just had to suffer through it - though prescribed narcotics can help knock you out until it goes away.

I hope it isn't this. Best wishes, Mark