DNF-critique.

[B-J]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGUjLB0RTiE]YouTube - Bjarte DNF[/ame]

Can someone please comment on my technique?
The equipment I`m using is a bit new, but it seems to work. During this swim I actually felt that my feet were to heavy after my armstroke, but thats not true I think. That`s probably why I went a little bit deep (please no dirty comments:naughty) after my first armstroke. I`m especially curious about my legstrokes. Please don`t be nice.

Bjarte

 

[picasso]

Hi Bjarte, it seems quite OK, but I thing you need more lead to your neck weight. That is why your position was with your head down. Legstroke seems OK too, but maybe you shold start slower stroke and fasten it just at the end of the stroke. You can try that by swiming just with legs and how many stroke would you need to finish one lenghth. Thats what I would improve if I were you.

 

[Ale Andres]

Hi, i think that you need weight in your hips, not in your neckweight. On the other way, if i was able to do 25 mts with only 2 armstrokes i would be more than happy, you don't need to work on this, may be 1 minute for 50 mts is a little too much, i'd work on this, and breath hold, you don't need a better technique, my opinion

 

[chrismar]

Legs too floaty, so weight on a belt (~1kg, maybe less)
Armstroke coming from core, causing legs to drop/body to fold during stroke. All the power should come from the arms & shoulders.
Kick needs work. Too much kick going back at speed, not enough whip. It's the latter that gives propulsion.
Turns are slow. Work on getting them quicker & smoother.

Considering the number of technique-related questions you've been asking, I reiterate my suggestion to get some coaching done. It's likely to be beneficial and get better replies than asking on here. After all, most of the people that can help are either:
A: Not regular contributors on here
B: Your competitors (myself included). Improving your already solid performances aren't really in their best interests.

Not to be mean, but I really think you'll get better results that way. After all, you've had two replies so far and two conflicting and contradictory opinions. Kathryn McPhee, the world record holder for DNF, has offered remote coaching for a reasonable price. I'm surprised at the reluctance that people have shown to take her up on this. After all, people seem quite willing to hand over hundreds of dollars to PFI, DiveFIT etc for group tuition. Why not personal coaching for a fraction of that from a current record holder?

 

[watts]

Check out Dave Denistons or Brenden Hansons breaststroke dvds on goswim.com. They offer some great technique tweeks and drills to fine tune your style which can be adapted to dnf.The dnf armstroke is just a pullout in breaststoke realy.
Your head position can make a big difference in your leg position. By slightly looking forward it tends to bring them down. A good test for bouancy is just to push off from the wall and hold a tight streamline untill you compleatly stop and see if you float up quickly or sink or head or legs up. By keeping your elbows higher in the armstroke engages bigger muscles of the latissimus dorsi and the trapezius and you can use your hands and forarms to catch more water.

 

[Mullins]

By keeping your elbows higher in the armstroke engages bigger muscles of the latissimus dorsi and the trapezius and you can use your hands and forarms to catch more water.

I reckon this is pretty important. It not only gets better purchase against the water but keeps your torso out of the equation, so you don't end up dolphin kicking on every arm stroke. It also ensures you're pulling directly backwards for most of the stroke rather than pushing water out to the sides.

 

[trux]

Armstroke coming from core, causing legs to drop/body to fold during stroke. All the power should come from the arms & shoulders.

I watched the video, but am not sure if I understand what you mean by stroke from core. Can you explain? Do you mean that the hands/elbows are too down, as later referred to by Watts and Dave? Or do you mean something else?

The discussion about the high elbow pull is interesting. I tried doing it too, but recently one of our coaches started to enforce pull under the body, similar as at surface swimming. The advantage should be that you better trap bigger amount of water with the hands closer to each other, and then push the entire column of water under your body. Personally, I am not quite sure his method is more efficient though. He also claims the leg kick should not be much wider than the width of your shoulders, otherwise you lose hydrodynamism. He teaches also trying to keep knees together and kicking/whipping with X-legs then. Also here I am not quite sure he is right, so the discussion about the DNF style is always welcome here on DB.

Kathryn McPhee, the world record holder for DNF, has offered remote coaching for a reasonable price. I'm surprised at the reluctance that people have shown to take her up on this.

Good idea, though I'd prefer a personal non-remote coaching from her :inlove :chatup
No, seriously, there is no wonder there was no response - I never heard about it, and I am probably the one who watches all possible freediving sources the ever most of all and any other freedivers. Was she proposing it here on DB? Does she have a website with the prices and conditions? Each business requires proper promoting, and it usually takes months and years before it really takes on. The most important is having couple of satisfied clients, and good results (for example with some sample videos before and after her treatment). That may then start attracting more people than she can handle. Being a good competitor does not guarantee being a good coach, so if she wants to persuade other freedivers to learn from her, she must show them she is a good pedagogue too.

 

[Mullins]

Trux, if your hands are pulling under the body rather than out to the sides I think you can still keep high elbows, especially at the start of the stroke. The opposite extreme would be to keep your arms straight, which would mean they describe an arc.

 

[watts]

For me the drawing of the legs together does little for propultion but the whip you can create with the kick and if you can get good ankle flexability and feel/catch the water with the Base of your feet together with the down stroke of the kick is where it feels great and is most efficient.Training with a pool bouy between your thighs will help retrain a narrower more streamlined kick. Some pics of ankle flex.:blackeye

 

[B-J]

Maybe this is what an armstroke from the core looks like.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbrQScLAcGM]YouTube - Topi Lintukangas - The Amazing 60m Dive[/ame]
I`ve seen the DVD that is made about Topi Lintukangas and there is some great footage of his swimmingstyle. Looks very smooth and powerful. Personally I think this style works if I swim continous so I don`t like it for DNF. Maybe we could also include CNF-technique in this thread. Topi`s style is maybe beneficial for CNF?? Any ideas about this?

 

[Mullins]

Dolphin kicking without fins is a very inefficient form of propulsion. If you need more speed, wouldn't you be better off increasing the power of your frog kick or arm stroke?

 

[B-J]

I think you`re absolutely right about the dolphin kick, Dave. The thing that gives me alot more power is arching my back until I look like a banana, taking my hands far back and then using my abdominals to straighten out my body during my armstroke. I don`t do this in DNF because I don`t think I need all that power. And off course you burn alot of O2 by using all these extra muscles.
I`m just thinking that during a CNF-dive it would be great to have extra power and speed during the heavy parts of the dive. (Leaving surface and leaving bottom.)
I honestly don`t know how much more power you get out of this kind of stroke, but I`m thinking differentiating these strokes like some kind of "kickcycle." Some powerful strokes in the beginning and then some weaker strokes in the end.

 

[hteas]

Have any of you tried a double dolphin kick?

A light and narrow kick while your arms are moving forward, and a second, much stronger kick to get a glide going as you reach full length?

Not being a particularly accomplished DNFer (terrible in fact), I am unsure whether the technique is worth the extra effort, but it seems to keep me going

Howard.

 

[Mullins]

So you are replacing the frog kick with a dolphin kick? Or are you doing dolphin-dolphin-frog-arms?

I think the more dolphin kicking you do, the less efficient you'll be. You could just do a dolphin kick and go very fast for about 60 or 70 metres, then you'd be stuffed!

 

[watts]

Some cool vids.[ame=http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=zxdOCUEoTw4]YouTube - Kitajima-long-pull-after-start-gliding-after-kick[/ame] Check out Dave Denistons powerful style AA - Go Swim Main Player

 

[hteas]

Dave,
It's a narrow frog kick followed by a wider and much stronger frog kick. The first is while the arms are starting to move forward, and the second is as they approach full extension. No dolphin kick included.

BTW I was in Kona several years ago when two divers were going for WR in CNF. Both were using the dolphin kick. Topi had just gotten his
WR and everyone decided that it was the best option.

Howard