DNF to DYN conversion pattern?

[emero]

Hi guys!

We have an interesting discussion going on the polish apnea forum and I thought DB community could help us resolve this matter.

If pool competition consists only from two disciplines (static+dynamic) should there be a DNF to DYN calculation taken under consideration?

Obviously monofin/bifin divers are in better situation than those who choose to do DNF in a DYN competition. Should organizers back up "no fins" by multiplying their distance with some pattern?

During Submania 2009 it was DYN=1,25*DNF+5m
In Hungary last week: DYN=1,12*DNF+5m

where
DYN - distance with fin
DNF - distance without fins

It certainly makes competitions more exciting but do you think it's fair? After all it's athletes decision what's his/hers way of propelling under water...

 

[trux]

Well, this is up to the organizer, at least as far as for the medals for the combination goes. However, for the official ranking, both DNF and DYN get half a point per meter.

In the APNEA.cz ranking, I plan implementing an alternative balanced ranking for the DNF/DYN and CNF/CWT/FIM disciplines in the following way: I take top 10 (or perhaps top 20) performances for given year, calculate their average, and from their ratios i deduce a coefficient that will be then applied to all points in that year. I believe it is more fair than using a fix coefficient, though I may add several systems, so that you can choose the one you prefer.

 

[Jee]

Hi, we had as organizers this discussion about the DNF correction before the competition. Actuallay, I wanted to publish the correction equation, when we announced the competition, but that was not the case. We also asked our judges about it, and indeed, as Trux wrote, this is up to the organizers.

Emero, what is your opinion, was it OK (on MAN IV)? I think perhaps you don't needed other equation in this case (if you are, who I think you are ).

 

[emero]

Hi Jee!

As a DNF-guy I'm all for it!

We're preparing National Pool Championship in Poland and just wondering whether not use it.

Can you tell me how this pattern is calculated? I'm mostly intrigued by those 5m... :hmm

Best,
Michael

 

[Jee]

For the championship - it is easy to solve this problem by allowing the competitors to go with and without fins. This means naturelly a two day comp. Usually first day evening - DNF, and next day: STA and DYF.

As for our equation: I cannot tell you such a scientific answer, like Trux mentioned.

When we discussed it, we also considered the equation used at the MAD cup, but then some of the team members told, that it is too much, too big compensation (the 1.25 factor). Actually, I'm also interested in the result of Trux's investigation. Perhaps it would be a good idea to regulate this question by AIDA Int., but that would need some more study - may be the data Trux is going to have would be enough.

Actually the same effort DYF and DNF should worth the same point. And this equation has a different solution for every freediver (and for every fin), and also changing from time to time.

 

[mattbigblue]

I thing there is one more factor to consider: pool size.

For instance:

case 1:
There is DYN/DNF competition:
Competitors are swiming both DYN and DNF in a 25m pool,

case 2:
There is DYN/DNF competition:
Competitors are swimming DYN in a 50m pool and DNF in a 25m pool

In case 1 DNF correction should be smaller than in case 2 (swimming with monofin in 25m and 50m pool is a big difference)

 

[mattbigblue]

However it would be interesting to hear D.Mullins opinion here.

He did 232m DNF during competition, in fact I don't think there is anyone who swam 232m with monofin in 25m pool

Difficult case to judge

 

[Mullins]

I really don't know, sorry. The thing is, I haven't done a max DYN attempt in a long time, so I'm not sure how my own DYN/DNF performances stack up. I mostly train @200m in both disciplines though, and I do find the DYNs a lot easier. I'd go with a ratio in the region of 1:1.2, all things being equal.

 

[Goran Colak]

Yes 1 to 1.2 ratio seams resemble.. I'd might even go with 1 to 1.25 ratio...

First one is 200m DNF equals 240m DYN, and the second one 200m DNF equals 250m DYN. Might be that the first one is more fair, I don't know...

In my own experience ratio should be 1.5 haha, but overall this examples mentioned above are OK at least that's my theory..

Ps. This is of course if you do DYN in a 50m pool and DNF in 25m pool.. like it should be for each discipline... if you start to mix pool lengths then all ratios are just to complicate to calculate...