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Does thinking use more oxygen?

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bucksgill

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Nov 26, 2013
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I've been doing static training and doing my breath holds seem to be significantly easier if I'm thinking lots about other stuff so much so I just forget I'm holding my breath and get to the end pretty easy. This seemingly goes against most things you read about statics and trying to clear you mind and not really think of anything. The brain is a major consumer of oxygen, and it may sound silly, but does oxygen consumption go up when you think more? :LOL: To me it seems as long as you aren't thinking about stressful things then it only serves to improve my holds. Is this right?

Thanks!
 
If you use you brain oxygen consumption will increase in some areas of the cortex, however, the difference is very small (5-10%). For the whole brain it will be just 1 or 2%. If you are not able to enter into true meditative state, thinking about something nice is a better option then trying to force your mind to remain silent . It helps to relax better and time passes quickly.
 
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Durng my freediving lessons I learnt some mechanisms to keep the brain working without stressing it, like thinking about a relaxing excperience, imagination of rain bow colors, etc. Perhaps playing a blind game of chess will not help ;-)
 
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Actually Marcin You are quite mistaken :)
This is proving that forcing to focus on "nothing" activates less brain space that meditating (floating around everywhere while being relaxed)
www.iflscience.com/brain/how-meditation-affects-brain
Very interesting link Matt, thanks for sharing. Bit of a pity that they confined themselves only to advanced meditators representing one particular school/technique. Their specific Acem training would no doubt have skewed the result - though to what degree is impossible to tell. A control sample of inexperienced meditators - or people from other schools - might have enhanced the result. That said, the principle seems clear cut and I'll be experimenting with this when I get the next opportunity
 
Thanks Mateusz, this is a very interesting study. I'm not good at keeping my mind silent and when I try to do it during apnea I get frustrated that it doesn't work. This makes me stressed and tense so I thought it's better to let my mind wander freely.
 
Interesting. I only just had a very brief look at the text, but must say that allthough interesting, from a more scientific point of view it is really difficult to say what the picture would be like during the struggle fase during apnea. It might just be the reversed as MarcinB proposed earlier. To me there's a huge difference between the two setups (the study vs. apnea)... In apnea you are up against one of the most powerfull feelings known...

But it would ofcourse again depend on how succesfull / experienced the diver is at "thinking nothing". I really don't think it is possible to conclude anything outside of the individual diver, allthough more research would shed some light on the area...
 
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Yes thinking DOES use more oxygen. Thinking(too much) can lead to panic. You need to hone is on your natural skills and learn to keep your cool as much as possible. A foggy mash can also cause disorientation, that can cause panic. I've had it almost happen plenty of times, i have to tell myself to keep it cool and remain calm. just because i cant see the bottom, the rock, the fish, the surface..whatever.. doesn't mean its not there.

Often i tell myself on the ascent, remain calm relax and you'll get to the surface. Just that silly mental stimulation can make all the difference in the world to your nerves...
 
not sure what that means dude, clearly you have some mental issues that certainly aren't going to be solved here on DB. go get some real help
 
OMG... kwonty I'm asking about the distinction mentioned in the before mentioned article between the two major approaches of meditation/mindcontrol: "Thinking freely" or "trying not to think"... Having a bad day?!???

It is not clear what you mean about that from your post above, since you first state that "thinking DOES use more oxygen. Thinking(too much) can lead to panic" (as if we should try not to -i.e. the one major approach) and then go on with a clear example of the opposite and how you actually intentionally "think" yourself out of panic (wich points towards the other major approach: Thinking intentionally on (good) things).

Loosen up dude...
 
All things being equal, thinking probably does use more oxygen. But all things are generally not equal.

Concentrating on something may well prevent you from becoming tense in other parts of the body, especially once contractions start, but I imagine there is a large variation between people of what works for them.

For me personally, when doing static, the time to the first contraction increases by about 10-20%, if I try concentrating on something as opposed to just sitting there trying not to think of anything.
 
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Question: what is thinking?

The process of identification.

This implies searching, identification, comparing, judging.

In my rough estimation thinking can use 50% of my O2, perhaps more.
In the past I've compared actively thinking about pleasant things, to just being passive.

One active way to avoid thinking, is to postpone upcoming questions to past the dive session.
Having a nap before also helps a lot, meditation maybe effective, depending on the skill and or mental questions.
 
In my rough estimation thinking can use 50% of my O2, perhaps more.
In the past I've compared actively thinking about pleasant things, to just being passive.

Can you share some of the experiences you had comparing the two...?
 
Well one early experience at the scuba dive club, at the time I did not have any freediving education, but I thought of experimenting with my thoughts while doing the group scuba static. The idea was that pleasant thoughts would help to go through time faster just like when travelling or doing boring stuff. So I gave it a try, and found it reduced my static time by half. The cause I think was I was trying to direct my thoughts, which is doing an effort off cause. On dives where pleasant thoughts came spontaneous it did not reduce the static time, but helped to reach and sometimes exceed my normal times.

Now I think that my statics are the best when having an empty backlog, well rested body and mind, pleasant social environment and a beneficial mildly curious explorer's spirit that moves along with a comforting mind swell.
 
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Thanks.

Allthough I completely aknowledge yout personal experiences, on a more general note going down 50% in static time doesn't seem plausible just from brain-oxygen consumption... It sounds to me like you might have been fighting a lot of stress, perhaps due to being a relative beginner. Could it be that? Because stress without a doubt fires up energi consumption dramatically...

Actually Marcin You are quite mistaken :)
This is proving that forcing to focus on "nothing" activates less brain space that meditating (floating around everywhere while being relaxed)
www.iflscience.com/brain/how-meditation-affects-brain

mattbigblue I can't see anything in that article that contradicts what marcinB was saying earlier, since the study is not done during (stressfull) apnea.

The more I think of it, using the distinction made in the article places both "no thougths" and "nice thoughts" in the same broad catagory: "The concentrated" - as opposed to "the non-directive.

One thing we want to avoid for sure is a negative emotional response, since that could trigger an alarmingly increase in the sympathetic nervous system - panic, or something close to.

Anyway, allthough not the best source, this article has some interesting points on the subject, along the lines that marcinB outlined earlier:http://www.iflscience.com/brain/how-meditation-affects-brain

Not so simple sugars
Unsatisfying and contradictory findings from glucose studies underscore that energy consumption in the brain is not a simple matter of greater mental effort sapping more of the body's available energy. Claude Messier of the University of Ottawa has reviewed many such studies. He remains unconvinced that any one cognitive task measurably changes glucose levels in the brain or blood. "In theory, yes, a more difficult mental task requires more energy because there is more neural activity," he says, "but when people do one mental task you won't see a large increase of glucose consumption as a significant percentage of the overall rate. The base level is quite a lot of energy—even in slow-wave sleep with very little activity there is still a high baseline consumption of glucose." Most organs do not require so much energy for basic housekeeping. But the brain must actively maintain appropriate concentrations of charged particles across the membranes of billions of neurons, even when those cells are not firing. Because of this expensive and continuous maintenance, the brain usually has the energy it needs for a little extra work.

Not an easy topic for sure...
 
I used to look after brain injured kids in the acute phase - it's a case of juggling a lot of variables in order to optimise outcome. One of the things we routinely do is induce coma (usually with barbiturates) in order to flatten brain activity. The thinking behind this is mostly theoretical, but is based upon the concept of giving the brain less to do in its injured state in order to optimise outcome. We can see this via continuous EEG measurement - wave forms are flatter representing less synaptic activity, less work, and presumably less oxygen consumption, and less CO2 production.

I think it's safe to say that a more relaxed approach will reduce cerebral metabolic demands and let you stay under longer. Sources cite the brain as using 20-25% of blood supply but I would be cautious of trying to put a figure on how much this can be influenced by arousal.
 
Lets have a test, normal max dive, max dive doing simple calculations, max doing challenging calculations.
My bet is that the normal dive is about twice as long as the challenging calculations dive.
 
Aye - psychological aspects are probably much more significant than physiology
 
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