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Dslr

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Jon

Dairyland diver
Supporter
Apr 7, 2001
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Anyone using these for freediving? If so what kind.

I know that Lambis and Fred were using some top of the line Nikon's and Canons, but those are out of my budget.

I'm looking for more of a low end system that will allow me to use a wide angle lens and dome port. Not entirely sure if I can pull it off financially, but I want to see how close I can get- and see if I need to sell a scooter or something to seal the deal. ;)

So, what are you using and how big is it- because size matter when freediving.

Jon
 
Wide angle lenses and dome port = expensive!
I was toying with the idea of putting my money, lots of it, into a pro kit for UW photography but i chickened out eventually, just far too much cash, in access of 6000 usd, if bought in the States not on my side of the pond where the price is the same but in EUR...

but these days it may be cheaper. if you want to stick to a DSLR, which will be the most versatile and can give you top quality, an entry level Canon or Nikon, say 400D or D40x, even new will be some 500-600 bucks. A housing for any of those will set you off in excess of 1000-1500 bucks, if new and with a dome port for fish eye/wide lenses capability that can be extra. The cheapest i know is Fantasea Line, with a housing for canon 400d at about 800 usd and some 400 usd for the wide lenses port. Best is to look for and find a good used one, though a second hand housing may be for sale simply because it flooded before, so i would not buy one on ebay, certainly not without a test beforehand. Add to it a pro lens e.g. fish eye, wide angle and this can be the most expansive piece of kit! but there are also more affordable options such as the amazing 4.5mm/2.8 Sigma (for canon) which with the 1.6 miltiplying factor (small sensor camera such as 400d) you get the equivalent of 7.2mm! now that's wide alright! this one costs some 800 usd but there are also cheaper ones in the 500 usd range.

I suggest a kit without strobes assuming you will mostly take photos in clear water and top 10-15m - it will be very difficult to freedive with the housing and a twin strobes set-up plus it will cost another grand!

So, i would suspect you will have to shell out some 2000-3000 usd for quality wide angle photography down under, is it worth? you bet, if that kind of disposable income is there!

serge
 
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No strobes with this system. I freedove on a wreck in 20 meters of water once with a friend's Nikon F-4, with dual strobes, and thought I was going to kill myself. :head Way too much bulk and with digital I just don't see the need.

I'd been thinking about a cheaper camera, like the D-40, so I could spend more on the housing and port. I've found camera/housing combos starting at $1,200 from B+H Photo, but I would need to add in a 11.5mm lens and dome port on top of that.

If it came in around $2,000 I could sell my scooter and help fund it, but if it's in the $4,000+ range it's not even a pipe dream. :(

I guess I could go with camera and housing for now and up grade the rest of it in the coming years. My second choice, so far, is th new DX-1G from sea&sea. Sea & Sea USA - Underwater Photography Cameras & Video My father-in-law just got one and seems to really like it, but he bought the strobes and other stuff that I just don't need- or want. It's a nice camera than what I have now, but still not the same as going DSLR.

I know that Metal housings are smaller and nicer to freedive with, but am not sure that they are anywhere near my budget- more likely going to go with Ikelite.

Any idea if it would be cheaper to go with canon, or Olympus, over Nikon? I just know that Nikon makes the 11.5mm lens I was looking at- 7.2mm almost sounds too wide.

Jon
 
if it's DSLR, i suggest to stick to Canon or Nikon (the big too). Olimpus makes good compact cameras but in teh world of DSLR they are nowhere to two contenders, mostly becuase of their range of lenses. it's true that they have a 3/4 sensor which makes the cameras smaller than the competitors which can be an added value underwater but then again, any decent lens costs a fortune with olimpus.

my suggestion is to stick to DSLR not going sea n sea or similar, i took that road once with my last camera of film and it was nearly close to what a nikonos was able to do.

At the rock bottom you could get a 400d (450d is out now so 400 should be getting really cheapo), a Fantasea Line housing and dome port you look at 1800, max 2000. i didnt add the fish eye lense to keep it below 2k! :) this one you could find second hand probably and it's going to be close to 2000, max 2500.

yes, bhphotovideo.com is a great place to shop around
serge
 
Thanks for the great info!

What do you think about the Canon XTI? I've used, and owned, Nikon's before but never a Canon. I know what Nikon offer sin glass, but have no idea what's out there for canon.

I see that B+H has some basic setups that could get me started and then i could add lenses and ports on later .

Here's there 40X with a Fantesea housing: Fantasea Line | FD-40X Housing w/ D40X / 18-55mm | B&H Photo

This is the Canon/ Ikelite version: Ikelite | F-400D Housing w/ Canon EOS Digital Rebel XTI/ 18-55mm

I've used, and know many others who have owned, Ikelite systems in the past. They are bulky, but cheaper than other brands. They don't hold up to technical diving depths, but would be fine for freediving. I have NO idea about fantasea. Are they any good? Will they hold up? I see that they have flood insurance, but does that mean they had problems in the past, or are they just so sure of their product they throw it in for free for the first year?

Jon
 
Canon XTI is the same as Canon 400d i was refering to, just a marketing thing how the same camera is named in US and Europe.

The issue of Nikon vs Canon now. i am canon biased as i went this way and now own a bit of kit. both brands make some fantastic cameras and have an extensive line of lenses, including additional ones made by sigma, tamron and tokina (all very good and somewhat cheaper).

Both brands have very similar prices for their entry level be it XT, XTi or D40, D40x. If you had nikon stick to it. In any case i suggest you to buy the body only, dont pay the extra cash for the kit lens, it's very basic. if you really want top quality, start with a pro spec wide angle lens then build up a set of lenses one by one. I spent some 1000 usd on entry and semi pro lenses so far and ended up buying the L type lenses for canon, each being at 1000 usd plus but it's worth every cent.

finally on the housing, Fantasea is not as known as Ikelite indeed. it's all a matter of money, if you can afford something better with a tech diving depth, get it but really that's only if you want to take it for some scuba diving too. while freediving, without strobes, it will not make any difference if you are at 15 or 60m, there wont be much colour in the photos apart from blue. Best bet is to check out reviews about fantasea and if they are reliable and rated 30-40m, that's good enough, iwould say.

serge
 
So, if I went with the Canon XTI which lens would you recommend- knowing that I want something as wide as possible without going to a full fisheye view- still want it to be rectilinear.

Knowing this would give me a place to start from when it comes to piecing together a housing for it.

Jon
 
Jon,
I have been shooting with a Nikon D70/Ikelite Housing and DS-125 strobe. I freedive with this quite often but mostly in shallow water. I know what you mean about it being a bulky system to carry deep. I was recently on a 20m wreck and I wimped out and carried my old Nikonos with 15mm lens :). If you are trying to keep the cost down you might want to consider looking at Tokina brand lenses. They are considerably cheaper than Nikon and Cannon lenses. I have never owned a Tokina but I have talked to several serious UW photographers that recommend the Tokina 10-17 for wide angle. For wide angle, I have been shooting with a Nikon 12-24 lens. It is considered a rectilinear lens (unfortunately very expensive) but on its widest setting I can see very slight distortion. I always find myself shooting with that lens on its widest setting, and wishing it were a little wider, so I am planning on selling it and picking up the Tokina 10-17 fisheye.
 
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Great info!

Have you tried the Nikon 10.5mm lens? I messed up before and called it an 11.5, but meant 10.5mm. That is the one I was thinking about for the Nikon. I have no idea what a Canon equivalent is. I'll take a look at the Tokina's.

When you put an Ikelite system together do you just add in the dome port, or do you need to add in an adapter ring as well? I'm just trying to ball park the pricing on it. Which dome port do you use with your lens?

I used to own an Olympus 5050 in a PTO-15 housing with the INON wide angle lens and dome port. it took some pretty good pictures but wasn't what I would call small. I remember that Lambis told me his D70 system, in a metal housing, was similar in size- or at least felt that way underwater. the big downside to that old system was the 10 second PER shot it took to take pictures in RAW mode. I'd gladly give up the video functions to improve the still photo quality at higher speeds.

thanks again,

Jon
 
The d40x has been recommended to me by a friend who is an award winning u/w photographer in Russia. The Fantasea case looks good for freediving - being relatively compact. I think we're less likely to see leaks freediving. I need to educate myself more about lenses. Will a wide angle fit inside the housing stock?

I currently use the canon s80 with an Inon wide angle wet lens - the wide angle seems pretty necessary to me now - but the speed and image of an SLR would kick ass.
 
It depends on how wide you go. With most standard lenses you can just use the standard port that comes with. When you start going really wide, say less than 20mm, you need to use some type of Dome port. Some systems require adapter rings in between the dome port and the housing- it all adds up very fast.

Dome port are essential for split level shots. I used to do them with my Inon lens, but since it was an adapter lens that screwed onto the outside of the housing you had to be very careful how you held the camera- or the water would slip out and mess up the focus. With a dome port/DSLR system there would only be air on the inside.

Here's some examples of shots I took in the past with my old system.

Jon
 

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Great info!

Have you tried the Nikon 10.5mm lens? I messed up before and called it an 11.5, but meant 10.5mm. That is the one I was thinking about for the Nikon. I have no idea what a Canon equivalent is. I'll take a look at the Tokina's.

When you put an Ikelite system together do you just add in the dome port, or do you need to add in an adapter ring as well? I'm just trying to ball park the pricing on it. Which dome port do you use with your lens?

I used to own an Olympus 5050 in a PTO-15 housing with the INON wide angle lens and dome port. it took some pretty good pictures but wasn't what I would call small. I remember that Lambis told me his D70 system, in a metal housing, was similar in size- or at least felt that way underwater. the big downside to that old system was the 10 second PER shot it took to take pictures in RAW mode. I'd gladly give up the video functions to improve the still photo quality at higher speeds.

thanks again,

Jon
Warning: I am not a professional photographer ... this is just a hobby of mine :). I have not tried the 10.5 Nikon lens but I understand that it is a terrific lens. The fixed focal length of the 10.5 will yield greater sharpness than the Tokina 10-17 but the 10-17 is more versatile and slightly wider. Personally, I am not going for production quality shots so the difference is not an issue for me. The 10.5 is a fisheye lens and will have barrel distortion but you can also correct this distortion with post processing software.

For the Ikelite housings you need to match the adapter ring (aka: stalks) with the port. The adapter rings are very inexpensive (comparatively speaking). I can't remember how much.. but I'm guessing under $50? For wide lenses like the Nikon 12-24, Nikon 10.5 or Tokina 10-17 the recommended port is the 8 inch dome port which sells for around $350ish. This is the port that I use. If my memory serves me correctly (please don't quote me on this :)) I think I have seen images taken with the Nikon 12-24 using the 6 inch dome port (6 inch port comes stock with the housing) and they were very nice. The 8 inch dome port is recommended for wide angle though. By the way, the 8 inch dome port is a MUCH better port than the 6inch dome port for the over/under shots that you mentioned. Just FYI... Wetpixel.com is a good resource for this detailed stuff like using a non-recommended port with a particular lens. You can also speak with the guys/gals at ReefPhoto.com who are very helpful.

I know this stuff is expensive but you can purchase pieces as you evolve with the system. I have alot invested in the DSLR route and I don't regret it one bit.... althought I still can't seem to let go of my old Nikonos :). I started off with just the camera and stock lens. Then purchased the housing, DS-125 strobe with stock port on ebay for only $1400 (would have been $2300 ish brand new). I then moved to a macro lens & port, and then later moved to a wide angle lens & port.

I think that Serge offered some excellent advice with purchasing the camera body and going straight for the wide angle lens of your choice instead of paying extra for the stock lens that comes with the camera packages.
 
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Jon and I are parallel shopping right now. But since he's from Wisconsin and has more scuba certifications than I do, I have to kick his ass and get one first. (though this is somewhat mitigated by the fact that I have his old hard nemo monofin - which he admits was too much for him) He, however, can still dive deeper than me - or at least has so far - so I have to humiliate him somehow.

Seriously though - this is awesome input. The camera body alone idea really knocks the price down nicely and takes some of the burn out of the wide angle lens.

FYI - it looks like the Tokina is manual focus only on the D40x.
 
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More great info.

I've got another question about the whole DSLR system. When you compose your shots can you use the video screen like on the P+S cameras or do you need to compose through the eye-piece?

Putting together the system I would just go with the lens I want right away and the 8" dome port. No reason to add in a bunch of extra stuff I know I will never use. I've always found wide angle lenses to be worth every penny for the underwater stuff- much more worthwhile than strobes, especially for freediving.

Jon
 
With most DLSR's you will need to compose through the eye piece. With the Nikon D70 there is no real time display but it does show you the picture immediately after taking it. On the rear of the Ikelite housings there is a built in "magnifying glass" behind the cameras eye piece that helps you to use the cameras eye piece (viewfinder). I would imagine that all housings are like this but I only have experience with the Ikelite housing and Nikon D70. When I first realized this it seemed like a big difficiency but you get used to it and after using the system for a while I don't see it as an issue anymore.

When I moved from the Nikonos to the housed DSLR my pictures got better immediately....even the first time using it. The Nikon DSLR's have a highlights feature where it will display the photo with highlighted areas that are potentially overexposed (I am sure the Cannon's also have an equivalent feature too). This is nice because you can make adjustments and take the shot again if needed. I am not a great photographer... but with digital I just use statistics on my side. I take alot of pictures and with some luck.. a couple will turn out pretty good :)
 
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Jon dont know if the info on this site is any good for you as i am half looking at going down the fish eye/wide angle with adapter onto my compact but glad to see your comment about the water running out from the gap distorting the image between water and air.
Cameras Underwater: Lenses and Optics.
 
I have quite a few pictures with the lens gap half full (or half empty :) ) of water. In fact its best always to remember to loosen the lens and let water in as it can take awhile otherwise.
 
cheers fondue will probably be towards the end of this year before i get shelling out for it.
 
Olympus produces DSLR with "live view" that allows you to compose like a P+S camera.
You can find e330 models on ebay quite cheap, and there is an Olympus housing.
I have a e410, it's a very good camera, but I still need to buy the housing.
 
I went to the camera store last night and ended up leaving with more question than when I went in!rofl

The Canon D40 has live view and in a couple months Canon will unveil their new XSI with live view as well- but who knows how long it will take them to make a housing for it.

The Nikon D40 is a nice little camera, but it only uses AFS lenses by Nikon. None of the older Nikon lenses will work with it in auto mode- you need to jump up to the D80 to get that. I really wanted to put a 10.5m lens on it but it doesn't sound like that will work- unless I just set the focus and forget it since the depth of field would be so great. Not the best option, but I know I don't have the cash to move up to the 80.

As far as housings go, it looks like the Fantasea line would be good for the Nikon as they are smaller, and cheaper, than the Ikelite equivalent. The Canon version of the Fantasea housing has had some issues and have been pulled from the market while they redesign and find a new company to outsource production to.

When it came to taking split level shots with my old INON dome port system I needed to go underwater to completely flood the space between the lens and then angle (the front part of) the lens above the water. I would snap away until I came out of the water so far that the water would leak out. When the water leaks out, or if you have any air bubbles trapped in there, they show up as giant black circles. Once you have all the water drained out, and no drops left on the lens, then you get the full view capabilities back.

Things are adding up so fast with this venture that the DX-1G is starting to look better all the time.:confused:

Jon
 
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