DWF Sprint = NO! (for me)

[Polorutz]

Hi guys... just checking in to comment on something that has happened to me a couple of times.

Whenever I do a long DWF there is a tendency in me (and lots of other freedivers) to sprint at the end... well, I've LMC'd several times doing DYN in distances that are nowhere near my max because of this (I think, because in constant rythmic DWF I've never LMC'd), so my question's this:

Is there a way to control that urge to sprint at the end of a long Dynamic with fins?

 

[Panos Lianos]

Yes there is. It's called "self-control".

 

[naiad]

I sometimes sprint at the end of a long dynamic. I know it is very hard, but it is possible to control. With statics, I used to find it impossible to keep still during the 'struggle phase'. Now I have managed to control the urge completely, and I can do much longer statics.

I learnt to keep still during statics when I was doing dry statics with an injured knee. It hurt more to move around than to keep still and face up to the urge to breathe.

 

[Juniorre]

I also used to spint in the end of my DWF. That's how I had my first BO and few LMC's.

When I did my first 100 meters I've spinted for last 25 like a mad - and a result was ... well actualy I don't remember what was the result. Fortunately my friends were there to rescue me.

Since I've learned not to sprint in the last meters I never had BO or LMC. And I do a lot longer dynamics.
I can fight contractions for 100 meters and surface without problems if I stay calm.

But only way to do it is, like Panos Lianos said - self-control.

 

[Polorutz]

But only way to do it is, like Panos Lianos said - self-control.

I seem to lack that... :head hehehe

 

[trux]

I seem to lack that... :head hehehe

Try using chains like Blaine

 

[Walrus]

Just to offer an alternate opinion, increasing speed at the end of a dynamic can actually be beneficial. Towards the end when you are more hypoxic your dive reflex is stronger and there is a greater shift for your muscles to use anaerobic stores rather then aerobic. Trouble is most of the time I can't really do it because my legs are so lactic there isn't much left in them.
If you are kicking with good technique and increase your speed I see no drawbacks to this. If however it's a panicked rush, your heartrate goes up and your technique goes to garbage then obviously your performance suffers.
ie a controlled increase in speed - good, panicked sprint bad.

Cheers,
Wal

 

[naiad]

I think panicy sprinting is good - it gives the safetydivers a heads up on what's coming

When I see that, I start swimming as fast as I can on the surface to keep up with the hypoxic fugitive.

The static equivalent is when someone can't seem to decide whether to come up or not. Sometimes I've seen someone who is obviously close to the limit, moving around and holding onto the side of the pool, unable to decide whether to finish now or do a few seconds more. There may not be any signs of LMC yet, but I get into position to pick them up, as it is only a matter of time before indecisiveness deteriorates into shaking. (Of course, if there are already any signs of trouble, I pick them up immediately.)

Maybe moving around at the end of a static has the same effect as sprinting at the end of a dynamic.

 

[jome]

Hmm, seems my post was eaten in the update or something.

Anyway, having seen a couple of sprints gone bad, as well as awesome sprints resulting in great results, I think it's very easy as a bystander to see which is which.

There is a distinct difference in the panicy "oh my god, I'm going to die, but I just have to reach that wall"-type and the controlled kind, which is part of a specific dive strategy. In the panicy sprint, there are a couple of signs, like letting out air, totally loosing technique, tilting head up etc, which are a dead give away.

The bad kind of sprint is actually "good" in the sense, that it gives the safetydiver a heads up of the dive ending in disaster with 99% certainity, so they can get ready But I mean this as a joke! I don't recommend anyone take this as advice for a competition strategy (usually I would not specifically state I mean it as a joke, but you know...People read these things, and they make their own conclusions)

So my advice would be, avioid sprinting if you are not in control. If you feel an euphoric "second wind" in the end, then especially avoid it! You're almost blacked out.

If in stead you feel your head is completely clear, you're on the last part of your dive and your legs are burning with lactic acid...Then it might be worth a try. Like one finnish diver once put it (concering a specific dive strategy): if your legs are not absolutely bursting with lactic acid in the end, the dive has failed. Meaning: you have not utilized the dive/apnea reflex as much as you could/should have.

 

[Haydn]

Yes a few posts have gone missing. Stavros said: "Haydn what you are suggesting is to get fit and sprint rather than control the urge to sprint? That way you can sprint and spend less O2 during that compared to being unfit and sprinting...am I right? But if you end up being fit and consuming O2 slowily at high effort wont it be even better to keep a slow pace at dynamic during which you will consume O2 even slower?

What I am suggesting is that sprinting training (surface or UW) is very benefitial for dynamic apnea but at a max dynamic even if you are extremely fit you will still spend O2 slower if you keep a steady slow pace compared to sprinting.
One final note is that you also suggest that a 50m dynamic will take 30-40 sec. Are we talking monofin here? Because for normal pace with dual fins my (and everybody I train with) 50m usually takes around 50-55 sec - which is the same pace I do a normal max dynamic at (ie 150m at around 2:20-2:30)
A 30-40 sec dynamic is sprinting for dual fins and we only go around there in high CO2 training.

Regards
Stavros Kastrinakis

Sorry Stavros, I didnt mention but my only experience here is with a mono. Simo is right that near the end of a dynamic you may still have muscular strength. You can use this up in a final sprint. By sprint, I dont mean 100% but maybe increase your pace by an extra 30%. By speeding up in this way, you get the mono to work more efficiently. Monos are rubbish when going slowly. By speeding up you rely more on rhythm and amplitude and less on knees, therefore lactic can also be controlled. When you feel lactic, switch to better rhythm by speeding up. The correct mono rhythm is hard to achieve at the slow speeds most people do their dynamics. Just like its hard to ride a bike slowly.

 

[naiad]

There is a distinct difference in the panicy "oh my god, I'm going to die, but I just have to reach that wall"-type and the controlled kind, which is part of a specific dive strategy. In the panicy sprint, there are a couple of signs, like letting out air, totally loosing technique, tilting head up etc, which are a dead give away.

I agree that there is a big difference. The main sign of a panicy sprint is loss of technique. I used to do that, trying to go faster but just doing frantic inefficient strokes. Fortunately I have never had a LMC or blackout during dynamic, touch wood.

The bad kind of sprint is actually "good" in the sense, that it gives the safetydiver a heads up of the dive ending in disaster with 99% certainity, so they can get ready But I mean this as a joke! I don't recommend anyone take this as advice for a competition strategy (usually I would not specifically state I mean it as a joke, but you know...People read these things, and they make their own conclusions)

I knew it was a joke!

 

[AltSaint]

Lucia

The moving around at the end of a static isn't always indecisiveness. For some of us, it's a way of focusing the senses on motor movement, and away from struggling. This also has the benefit of feedback and validating that the brain is OK at coping with this. Doesn't need to be more than finger movement or light muscle tensing. Personally, I have found this to greatly help with being able to detect the symptoms of oncoming SWB.

Mark

 

[naiad]

I didn't mean the moving around that many people do at the end of a static. I meant when someone looks as if they are really pushing the limit, and almost takes their face out of the water, and then changes their mind, lets go of the side of the pool and does a bit more. Even if they are giving an ok sign, the fact that they obviously must have suddenly felt better is an indication that there might be a problem. This is also more likely if they look very, very blue. I have sometimes experienced the sudden good feeling and decrease of the urge to breathe that happens very close to the limit. It feels like I could do another minute...

It's hard to say exactly what it is, but sometimes I can be almost certain that someone is going to finish with a LMC. It doesn't have anything to do with how bad their contractions are, or how long they have done. I think it is usually when a beginner decides to go for a max, hyperventilates a lot, does far more than their previous PB, and sprints at the end of a dynamic, or appears to be very stressed.