Dynamic Rules Question

[ADR]

I have read the current rules a number of times and can't determine if you are allowed to touch the bottom of the pool when making turns in dynamic.

Can anyone clarify and/or talk to experience with this in recent comps?

Thanks

 

[CEngelbrecht]

7.8.3 does say this:
If the athlete pulls or propels him/herself on a support point (wall, line, bottom, etc.) before the exit of his/her mouth or nose, a penalty of 10 POINTS is applied.

But that is before the exit, nothing is stated about turns. So that oughta be allowed. Just be sure not to push from the bottom when you're about to exit, and you should be fine.

Chris Engelbrecht, Copenhagen

 

[trux]

7.8.3 does say this:
If the athlete pulls or propels him/herself on a support point (wall, line, bottom, etc.) before the exit of his/her mouth or nose, a penalty of 10 POINTS is applied.

But that is before the exit, nothing is stated about turns. So that oughta be allowed. Just be sure not to push from the bottom when you're about to exit, and you should be fine.

I agree with the interpretation, but consider the rule formulation very unlucky and not specific enough. If you interpret the logic of the sentence exactly, then everything what happens from the start till the exit happens before the exit. In this sense you wouldn't be allowed to pull or propulse you on a support point (wall, line, bottom,...) not only shortly before the exit, but also during the turns (they happen before the exit, not after it), and not even at the start (happens before the exit too). From this point of view, I'd urge a change of the rule formulation in this way, to avoid misinterpretation:

If the athlete pulls or propels him/herself on a support point (wall, line, bottom, etc.) immediately before the exit of his/her mouth or nose, a penalty of 10 POINTS is applied.

 

[ggarrett]

(are you) allowed to touch the bottom of the pool when making turns in dynamic.....(?)

Can anyone clarify and/or talk to experience with this in recent comps?

In addition to 7.8.3, also see
"5.17 Any propulsion assistance other than swimming movements is forbidden (except in case of thrusting against
the side of the wall during turns). This means that the nose and/or mouth of the athlete have to exit before
or simultaneously, when grabbing the pool edge or the lane-rope in the pool."

I believe the operative word is "propulsion". There rules assure that the athlete uses his own power. I did ask a judge at a competition about touching the bottom. He said that it's OK if it's a bump or brush against the bottom. However, if the athlete were to use it for propulsion, I understood it's a DQ, not just a point penalty. An example of this would be standing on the bottom before the head-airways have cleared the surface. In that case, the athlete would "propel" himself to the surface by standing. The same thing goes for grabbing the wall before surfacing of the airways.

On the other hand, brushing the bottom with a foot, leg, arm might actually impede propulsion and a judge should dismiss it. At the turn, it would depend on whether the touch advanced propulsion. I do a flip turn and sometimes I have to touch the bottom with my hand to keep from hitting the bottom. I understand that this is allowed.

It's best to check it out with the judges present. Some judges are stricter than others about interpretations of the rules. Get a ruling before rather than after a performance. It's also best to practice by the rules with no gray areas of interpretation.

Peace.
Glen

 

[naiad]

On the other hand, brushing the bottom with a foot, leg, arm might actually impede propulsion and a judge should dismiss it.

That's good to know. When I do DNF, my hands and feet often brush the bottom of the pool. This certainly doesn't increase propulsion and probably impedes it.

Lucia

 

[ADR]

Thanks to everyone for the responses. The "propulsion" view point is probably what I was looking for as in the turn I often place a hand on the bottom for balance and pivot around it. It does help me turn but in no way provides propulsion. I will ask the judges at the next comp....just to be sure.

 

[Stavros]

Hi Andy,
just thought I'd put in my 2 bits from what I have heard in competitions.
Basically the problem with touching the bottom at ANY point in time during a dynamic is that you are not allowed to touch the bottom for propulsion. (as many people have stated) So IN THEORY you could touch the bottom during your turns since you are just supporting yourself and not propelling yourself.

BUT the huge problem is that it is often the case that the Judges on the poolside cannot see clearly what you are doing at the bottom and it would be very difficult for them to decide if you propelled yourself or just touched.

So the general guideline I got in the last 3 competitions from several AIDA international judges was to AVOID TOUCHING THE BOTTOM FOR ANY REASON AT ANY TIME DURING DYN - which keeps things nice easy clean and clear. (This of course does not include if a leg or arm accidentaly touches or scrabs the bottom - just do not intentionally touch the bottom)

Cheers Stavros