dynamics and anaerobic

[shark109]

I think I have a problem in DYN and DNF because I realize that DYN for example my spasms start at 50-60 m and quickly become very hard to deal with that's why i stopped my dynamics at 100m.

However I do not have legs that burn which indicate that we have gone in the anaerobic mode which allows the body to consume less 02 but in my case I think my body does not pass in the anaérobic form so that's why I consume very quickly my stock O2.

But how to work the anaerobic mode and to bring my body in this mode very quickly

 

[georgeg]

Hi!

I think your main problem is to deal with the high levels of CO2. The way to deal with it is to do some CO2 tables on static apnea and dynamic. In my opinion it is the hardest part of the training, but it is in the same way the most usefull.

For example:

STA: Static: 1/2 of your max - Break: 1.15. Decreasing the break about 15'' until the end of the set(1.15-1.00-0.45-0.30-0.15-one breath only)

DYN: Dynamic: 50m(in your case, I think will be ok) - Break: 5 seconds. Continue untill you'll be full of CO2. I think about one hour time will be ok for this set.

DNF: The same with DYN decreasing the dynamic about 25m and increasing the break about 5 seconds.

Doing something like that for a few weeks or months will help you first of all to have spasms many meters later. Also when they became "very hard" your organism will be ready to deal with them better, because through this training will become keen on with high levels of CO2.

Hope help you a little,

Greetings,
George

 

[chrismar]

That seems completely normal. My contractions start a bit earlier and seem unbearable by 100, then get easier. Lactic only comes on around 100 or so.

Have you tried just pushing through?

 

[shark109]

That's maybe the problem i just not try to push over the 100 meters barrier because i really think it's just impossible as the urge to breath is too hard...

I don't understand why I can do 6'00" in statics and only 100meters in Dynamics

 

[ericvrp]

Have you tried swimming really slow so the dive will be more like a moving static? If that works better you can start changing things to a more efficient swim speed.

 

[shark109]

Hi Eric ,

I think I'm still quite slow i do 50 meters in 1'05" is'nt it?

 

[ericvrp]

Yes, that's quite slow indeed. Is that with bifins by any chance?

 

[shark109]

Yes i'm using bi-fins for my dynamics

 

[Kars]

Ok, an idea for you Shark109,

Do some muscle warm up swimming, with a CO2 schedule such as 25m apnea, 3 breaths, 25m, 3 breaths. Focus on staying relaxed, maintain efficiency. 10 lanes will do. Enjoy the CO2 narcosis

Now you're warmed up, without tapping into your apnea reserves. Drink some water dry yourself off and lay down warm for 5 a 10 minutes resting.

Than stand up slowly, slowly put on your gear and move slowly to the start, where you do normal slow breaths, maintaining the state of relaxation.
Final breaths are slow, a few deeper exhales, followed by an SLOW deep complete inhale.

Slowly dive under and swim very relaxed, loosely focussing on a nice rhythm and feeling. When your first contraction breaks your concentration, it's your body switching over to anaerobic mode, your cue to start to swim fast. Make sure you keep your head down, allowing blood to flow, and monitor yourself for surface cues like tunnel vision.

I think you may be amazed.

 

[shark109]

OK i'll try this tomorrow evening.

But what is the purpuse of swimming fast when appears the urge to breath.

Do you think it should increase my dynamics?

 

[Kars]

Swimming fast as a reaction to high-er CO2 is making distance easier psychologically. And it won't cost you much O2 either since your limbs are already vascular constricted and in anaerobic mode.

It's how I did my latest personal best.

 

[chrismar]

I still think the key to doing more than 100m is to not come up at 100m. If you're not having blackouts or sambas at that distance, it's not your limit.

As long as you've got a buddy, just do what you usually do except don't come up at 100.

 

[Mullins]

harden up

Agreed. Swimming further is probably the key here. But the warmup swims Kars suggested should make it easier.

 

[mystiach]

Nicely said, guys

Probably a bit of a mental block there as well. Before you start to swim, tell yourself you are going to touch at 100 and turn and push off - and keep thinking that no matter what, you will turn at 100. Even if you do 102m it is overcoming the mental aspect. You'll probably find that once you turn it's easy to keep going a bit further. If you're in the habit of coming up at 100 it is hard to break.

I've been training no fins recently and I have to commit to a big swim before I do it, else I bail at 50%, without fail, every time...

 

[Kars]

Another suggestion, don't count the meters. Through this you're programming yourself to a specific distance. What you can do, when it gets tough, is count a set number of strokes, say 10, and have a little mental internal check, after which you do another set. This will keep your mind much more in the moment or in the zone, instead of focussing on making a particular distance.

 

[trux]

And here we come to the problem. Shark109 is in my club, and the club has very strictly intolerant policies towards LMC and BO. We are a large club (60 freedivers) - with very big differences in the level. The instructors have huge responsibility overseeing all that crowd. The city authorities (owning the pool) dictate the safety rules too, and any minor accident, such as a blackout during the training, will be reported, and may lead to serious problems, and possibly even to the exclusion from the pool.

So, basically, during regular trainings, the club does not allow any swims longer than some 90% of PB. It means that Shark109 will have to wait with hard pushing until the next "max session" that we organize couple of times per year, or to the next competition.

I already advised Shark109 that in the meantime, to train more the anaerobic/lactic phase, he should do no-warm-up swims, swims after a breath-hold till contractions, FRC or empty lungs swims. On my mind he should also use a thinner wetsuit (I think his is too warm and inhibiting the diving reflex), using goggles instead of a mask, and trying to dive with some added stress (also helping the DR). I know Shark109's capacities (which are clearly above average), and saw him at some competitions, and think that his main problem is under-confidence, and vanishing commitment under stress, so these are also points that he should work on.

 

[shark109]

Thanks for all your answers to respond to Trux the main problem is just you're right it's very complicated to experiment new way of training as the pool's rules are so strict.

I do think it's normal to have some samba as try new routine when doing a max attempt and it's really hard to progress just doing 90% of you're PB especially when the 90% session are so few during the year and regarding the PB of all the members of our club you are the only one who manage 125 meters in DYN and above 140 in DNF and i think it's also because you've try new things.

I hope we can train together because it's true we don't have time ta speak together we unfortunatly all of us focus on our training then take a shower and training is finished and this year i've not an accurate aim juste feel new thing try neuw training because i think all the advices you gave me are good keys to progress .

 

[Kars]

Well Shark109,

You can apply the same tactic on dry land, as I did here too.

Slow muscle warm up - CO2 schedule, some rest, and 1 apnea jog-run.

Better done on grass (for a safer landing in case of BO) with a buddy doing coaching and recording.

After the preparation I start jogging in a relaxed way, looking down (head position seems important), and when a harder contraction comes, I step on the gas, and run. (I tilt my head a bit up, but still are looking down, keeping my focus inside counting sets of 4 steps - military style)

This experiment made me aware of the possible validity of the jog -> run approach, exceeding my previous land apnea jog by 40%. I ended the apnea run still surprisingly clear in my head, with also more to give from my muscles.

I'm confident you'll get better in the pool if you do 1 apnea jog->run a day. It's not necessary to do a pb every time, just the effort of trying and pushing you body is good enough as you're conditioning you body to react in a way, and turning the extra ordinary thing of pushing oneself to your limit into a new normal.

Indeed like Ivo said, FRC and No Warm up helps to avoid BO, and is a good training too.
Also the CO2 dynamic. Maybe turn that one into a FRC CO2 dynamic?

 

[shark109]

Thank's Kars I'll try both Ivo's advices and yours i'll try to push up during dry session and train the FRC and no warm up style at pool.

When training for Dynamics do you use CO2 table like the 10x50m recover 30" or something like that or is it useless?

Same question for statics training.Does it takes you lots of time to do best in no warm up style than with the old method?

When you start statics and dynamics whith the no warm up style what were your performance in comparison with the old method?

 

[Kars]

I take it that by Old method, you mean doing increasing apneas as an preparation to your best apnea.

What you'll find is that with increasing experience you can scale down the preparation apneas. This helps much to keep your bodies buffers fresh, while at the same time require more mental strength and endurance. I made that transition gradually. For instance for my Dutch Static record during the Dutch championship years ago, I used 2 apneas as my preparation, one empty lungs, one packed. In both breath-holds I did not push beyond 60-70%.

For CO2 schedules, mine varies. For instance in a short 25m pool I may like to go for 25 and 3 breaths. For a 50m pool I may do a 50m every 1'30" (just 30 sec recovery). I found that there are about 2 breaking points when doing a challenging schedule. first one is at about 4 50m lanes, when the CO2 is becoming very high, and it's hard! With a good coach you can push on, and then the next point is about half way, lane 8, after a few extra breaths it's usually doable to the 16th lane (16x50m). 16x50 is a fun training when you combine it with technique training, your coach giving your 1 direction at each stop. Start with an easy rhythm like starting every 2'30" or 2'.