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Dynamics PB without fins

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

Fabio Toyama

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2004
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I was wondering what is supposed to be a good standard for dynamics without fins.
Today I managed 75m (3 x 25) without fins after my weight training..

In the future I will try to be more hydrodynamic perhaps with a swimming cap, a suit, or neck weight (where can I buy them?)
I'm trying to condition my body to doing statics and dynamics tired to see if it improves my performance when relaxed.
Even tired I had some improvements.. did 5:40 static, 15 mins after heavy training.
Just need to be carefull not to overstress my body.. I've read some threads about it.
I'm also taking some anti-oxidants supplements.

I strangely find that my performance is not hugelly better when my body is relaxed.. My static PB is 6:10 in good conditions (temperature, body relaxed... ) and it's getting to 5:45 in bad conditions (water a bit cold and tired after weight training) ..
I would expect a greater difference between those trials in such different conditions of body and environment..

Is that normal?
Or maybe my PB in good conditions is already higher and I don't know..
As I haven't tried any dynamics with my body not being tired, my PB is still on 75m. I could not claim I'm capable of more if I haven't being there.

Well, let's see..

All the best to everyone!
 

Chavez

New Member
Aug 8, 2004
5
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Hi!
I cant explain it but my performance (if you wanna call it like that) isnt influenced in a negative way when I am tired. Cold hits my performance quite heavily but not so tiredness.
In fact I feel best underwater after 4km of swimming training, but I dont know why.
Cheers,
Dennis
 

jome

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2004
1,289
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I don't know if anyone sells neckweights but they're extremely simple to make your self.

You'll need:
Bicycle inner tubing
Lead pellets (such as shotgun bullets from your local hunting store or small lead weights from a fishing store)
A clip buckle (from your local sporting good store or old back pack etc)
And as allways in good DIY projects, loads of duct tape.

Fill the tubing with the pellets and loop the ends on the pieces of the buckle, seal with tape. Simple, durable, comfortable to wear, easy to fix and most importantly it works, due to the special relationship lead has with gravity.

I'd say a neckweight can make quite a difference, especially in no fins dynamic. And 75m is quite a nice result! It has been discussed before, but with good technique and balance you should be able to do 25m in 3-4 strokes+kicks.

I have also noticed that a gym workout does not seem to affect static times, at least not in a negative way. I've done my (dry) pbs after heavy workout. One thing that DOES make a huge difference for me is eating. I need at least 4-5 hours without any food to do a good static.
 
Last edited:

naiad

Apnea Carp
Supporter
Oct 11, 2003
2,897
449
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Originally posted by jome

I have also noticed that a gym workout does not seem to affect static times, at least not in a negative way. I've done my (dry) pbs after heavy workout. One thing that DOES make a huge difference for me is eating. I need at least 4-5 hours without any food to do a good static.

I find exactly the same!

Fabio, 75m without fins is amazing! My PB is 31m without fins, but this is in a baggy scuba suit and it takes me a ridiculous number of strokes to get anywhere. Improvement on the way!

Lucia
 

samdive

Mermaid, Musician and Marketer
Nov 12, 2002
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off topic but - if you buy lead shot to make a neck weight - make sure it is not the kind that is going to turn the pool black..

if you buy it from a dive shop it should be ok (but ask them). If you buy it from a gun shop it probably won't be..

kind of embarrassing leaving a grey trail in the pool

Sam
 

Fabio Toyama

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2004
41
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I was watching the video of Kars doing 100m without fins and he does 25m with between 4.5 to 5 strokes with an average of 26s.
I’m still doing in about 5.5 to 6 strokes with an average of 29 to 30s. That clearly shows I’m not being as efficient with my strokes. I’ve been touching up the technique but will try some accessories to slide a bit better in the water in the future.

Thanks for the tips on the neck weight.

All the best.
 

BlueIcarus

New-born freediver
Aug 1, 2003
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Hi Fabio.... 75 m. no/fins is an incredible start!!
Have yo seen Stig Severinsen 166 m no fins video? I think It's on his webpage. He does around 5 strokes / lap, so there must be a compromise between efficiency/speed.
BTW, do you remember at what distance/time did your contractions begun at your 75m try?

Cheers
 

Fabio Toyama

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2004
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That’s one thing I need to start paying attention. The distance in which my 1st contraction starts.
Not sure, but probably at about 45m (close to the end of the second lap).
Yes, I’ve seen the video. That’s something extraordinary.
I’m willing after a lot of physical and technique training probably to get to 100m. Anything more than that I’m not even dreaming about for now.

But human nature is like that…
That’s what I thought when I was on 4+ static. If I get to 5+ is going to be great. Got there. If I get to 6+ is going to be awesome… got there…
This forum really opens your mind. Without so much information I would never think I’d be able to get to 6+. Now I know there’s so much involved and so much we can experiment with our bodies that I might be still away from my real limits but don’t know how to get there yet.
I agree with (sorry, don’t remember who mentioned.. ) who said in the thread of the greatest freedivers quoting Eric fattah as someone who gives the information, teaching and giving advice to whomever wants to learn. Not under minding the explanations and advice from the other divers in this forum of course.

Back to the dynamics discussion, I still need to try my real PB. That trial was after my workout and after that I went to the pool to train technique 25m under the water / 1 breath. I might have done at least 15 laps. After I had a good rest and tried.
Perhaps if I start warming up only with statics with no previous training on the day I could do better. Don’t know yet..

Well, let’s see
All the best to everyone!
 

BlueIcarus

New-born freediver
Aug 1, 2003
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Just try an exhale short (without pushing) static before the dynamic.
You'll rock!! ;)

25 m under water / 1 breath = only 1 ventilation between laps?
 

Fabio Toyama

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2004
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25 m under water / 1 breath = only 1 ventilation between laps? [/B][/QUOTE]

No, more than that.. what I meant was 25m lap under the water focusing on technique. Timing myself on each lap trying different arms and legs strokes...
Not thinking about Co2, O2 tables or apnea training, just technique.
 

donmoore

New Member
Aug 19, 2002
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Neck Weight

Two ankle/wrist scuba weights clipped together makes a nice neck weight. No fabricating!
don
 

naiad

Apnea Carp
Supporter
Oct 11, 2003
2,897
449
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Yesterday I finally decided to count how many strokes I do per distance, and managed an incredible 20m in 10 strokes. :head
And I do mean arm stroke + leg kick for each stroke!

Does this break any records for inefficiency?

My bad technique and baggy suit have to go NOW!
 

Fabio Toyama

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2004
41
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Not as easy as I thought

Today I did not do my workout before trying a dynamic without fins.
My body was relaxed but still not much easier to get to 75m.
Therefore like other people described in the forum my performance did not change too much to the level of activity beforehand.
I’m giving even more credits now to any improvements I eventually have as I’m realizing how hard it is to add some extra meters. I thought I’d do much better with a rested body.
One thing I’m not sure about is how to prepare my breath up for the trial. I did something like a dynamic warm up.
Breath up 1min – 25m.
Rest 2 mins
Breath up 2 mins – 50m
Rest 2 mins
Breath up 2 mins – 75m (max)

I don’t know if 2 mins breathing is too much or too little when considering safety (avoiding hypocapnia).

Also don’t know if 2 mins rest is enough..

I’m accepting any suggestions.
I haven’t tried negative statics (as BlueIcarus suggested) before my dynamic as I was feeling a bit cold.

Well, let’s keep experimenting..

All the best to everyone.
 

BlueIcarus

New-born freediver
Aug 1, 2003
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Ok, I'm well below your level (60 m. w/o fins a week ago), but
every time I do a PB I'm not going for it. I do my dynamics, then
stop, rest at the end of the pool maybe for 5 minutes without stressing thinking about doing PB next one. I'm just cooling down
Then, at some training days, after this rest, I'm very relaxed,
you know, 'in the zone'. And then,ok, let's do one more, and, booom, PB. Don't know the physiological reasons...
I feel like for improving my PB I should do normal dynamics
at about 60-70% of it and feel very comfortable doing these.
Then, my PB moves. If I try PB every training, It just go down.

My humble opinion

Keep us informed, 75m+ no fins is a very good mark :D
 

Fabio Toyama

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2004
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I think you're right...
When I'm just practicing very relaxed I do 50m as if I was doing 25m. But when I start thinking about going to the max, doing this extra 25m to get to 75m is really hard. The graph of difficulty against swimming distance is far from being a straight line for me, but rather an exponential, but that should be quite normal as you approach your limit.

But 60m is also a very good mark! I must have technique to get there.

Some people combine dolphin kick with arm and leg strokes.
Is anyone getting good results with this technique?

All the best to everyone..
 

Ricochet

New Member
Jul 23, 2004
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I'm also working on my style, now.
I just came from the pool and tried some different armstrokes.
And tataaa... 25m in 3 strokes (after push off: armstroke -> frogkick -> armstroke -> frogkick -> Armstroke -> Frogkick). Yesterday it took me 5.

The only problem is that it takes way too long... in my opinion.
My buddy stopped the time: 47 seconds.

With a few more strokes and higher speed I made a 50 meters PB at the first go yesterday. My strugle phase began not until 40 meters, but I'm always bad in enduring the contractions, so I was happy when I hit the wall.


Sascha
 

IronLung

CHALLENGER of the DEEP
May 17, 2004
105
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So far, my best is a 125 YARD dynamic without fins, which equates to 112.5 meters thereabouts. Judging from what I've already read, this is a good distance. But, HOW good is it? I didn't count strokes, but I know my overall time was 1:46. I swam breaststroke in high school so I know my underwater stokes are highly efficient, and if anyone wants a few pointers, I'll be more than glad to help.

Ike
 

DeepThought

Freediving Sloth
Sep 8, 2002
2,334
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That's indeed a good number.
How good? maybe good enough for you to set a national record, depends on where you live.
If you're still new to freediving, you might also have a lot more in you.
Pointers are always welcomed. :)
 

IronLung

CHALLENGER of the DEEP
May 17, 2004
105
9
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WOW, are you serious? Heh, wow, thats insane. what is the US record for dynamic without fins? And yeah, I am new to freediving, I'd like to see where I can go with this. What do you think you need help with strokewise? arms or legs?

Ike
 

DeepThought

Freediving Sloth
Sep 8, 2002
2,334
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I don't know what's the US record, the world record is 166m but there are not many performances close to it. Some members here should be able to tell.
The issue around national records is that if it's not constant ballast, static or dynamic with fins, you usally won't have much oppertunities to break them as our sport is not very organised or sponsered. In some countries even breaking conventional national records is costly.

I probably need help in anything regarding swimming technique.
I guess leg stroke and dolphin kick (which are not necessary but I won't to master) are my worst.
But since I don't go to the pool right now (consdering signing in some place though), I won't come back with results in the very near future.

Thanks for whatever useful tip you can offer.
 
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