Dynamics training

[narked]

Yesterday I did dynamics without fins for the first time, thanks to Sam (bambam) suddenly sending me a PM asking if I fancied going to the Aquatics Centre in Manchester earlier in the day (so turns out the Commonwealth games were a major plus, it's a nice pool). So I decided that I would go along and embarass myself with my poor efforts at doing dynamics. As it's a public pool, we were stuck with doing dynamics (lifeguards wouldn't have been too impressed with us blocking the lanes floating face down for ages) and without fins. After a few laps to warm up, Sam made the first attempt, and went on to do 75m and make it look very easy (did I mention that I hate you sam?). Bearing in mind that I've only managed 33m WITH fins, I wasn't exactly expecting much. On the first attempt I got about halfway down the pool, probably about 12-13m. Partly I think I wasn't quite ready to go, but mostly technique was letting me down. After a few pointers, and a few more attempts, I ALMOST made it the whole way, 25m. Not exactly great, but it certainly felt good.

Now to the point (yup, all that above was for nothing!), has anyone got any advice on training techniques or whatever for someone that's quite new to dynamic? We're possibly going to start going to the pool once a week, so I'll have plenty of time to try out different things to find what works.

Cheers once again Sam, and thanks to anyone that offers advice,
Matt

 

[rigdvr]

Originally posted by narked
has anyone got any advice on training techniques or whatever...

HOLD YOUR BREATH LONGER!rofl

 

[narked]

Y'know, I'd never have figured that one out, so thanks! :hmm

Matt

 

[Walrus]

Try some dry statics before you get in the pool. That way you kick in your diving reflex and your distances will be a lot better.....

 

[thin_air]

what stroke are you using?

this is probably the most important aspect of no fins dynamic, when i changed from flutter kick to a frog stroke (underwater breaststroke or whatever its called) my distance almost doubled

and as rig said, hold your breath longer...

also, how fast are you doing your dynamics?

 

[Erik]

Hey amigo, I'm no expert at this discipline, but I do know a few things, as I do them every day at my job in a pool.
Make sure that when you do your kick, your head is down, with arms pointed straight in front and hands locked, making an arrowhead shape. Stay in that position, as straight as possible, for as long as possible....when you slow down significantly, then pull your arms all the way round to your sides in an overemphasised version of the breaststroke.....this is your power stroke underwater (as opposed to a surface breaststroke). Keep looking at the bottom of the pool at all times, and only start to bring your hands up to "point" once your momentum slows again. Immediately bring your legs into kicking position and kick.
The trick is to get the timing right ...finding out what the optimal rate is between strokes, kicks, and how much you need to glide. Practice.
And above all, take your time. Chances are that you are flailing a bit, and swimming too much. You need to optimise the glide aspect, and relax. Let the line at the bottom of the pool help put you in a nice little trance, and enjoy yourself!
As Walrus said, do a couple of statics before you get in the water. First one with no breathe up, and hold to 10 or 20 contractions....breathe for 2 minutes, then repeat for a max static. Then breathe up for 3 or 4 minutes.
Don't "warm up" by swimming laps at the surface. Don't do anything strenuous at all- you will burn up ATP and also get your heart beating fast....this is not a good thing. Do some stretches, breath, and relax. Then start your statics.
Give yourself 5 minutes between actual attempts to allow the muscles to recover properly. Your O2 levels recover within a few minutes, but you are not ready until the muscles recover somewhat. Conversely, if you wait too long, the spleen reabsorbs the extra hemoglobin that the statics have induced, so again, you must find a good period of recovery that works for you.
Wear a weight belt. Neutral bouyancy is extremely important....wear it as high as possible on your chest, or get a neck weight.
Hope that helps my friend; good luck and let us know when you hit your goals
Erik Y.

 

[gerard]

Don't train to much

to allow supercompensation of the body after training.

If you train too often or too long you'll mar your recovery. Training once or twice per week is enough.

Personally I am almost at 75 m with no fins (I plan doing 100 m very soon, maybe another 3 months). And it took me only six months, having started with only 40 m.

I suggest you to do 20-30 laps freestyle to warm-up, do a certain distance (underwater) for another warm-up, and then go for maximum distance being very relaxed.

Before doing any underwater training -and also between laps- perform yoga in lotus position, breathing in and out very slowly, feeling how the air reaches anywhere in your body, and finally try to disconnect from breathing, like a mental process. Personally my first 25 m are performed as if I was using only my mind, without feeling my body.

Just try here and there, whatever works best for you.

Regards, gerard.

 

[narked]

Not tried any yoga yet, not too sure whether it's going to be worth looking into or not though. Might give it a go sometime.

I'll definately have a go at doing some statics before dynamics and see how that goes.

Cheers for the help,
Matt

 

[DeepThought]

My feel of dynamic including all that was mentioned above,
is that good streamlining and the right power exertion is needed, to spend the least energy to cover as much distance as possible.
This thread gave me the best NO FINS dynamic advises:
http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25669&highlight=dynamic+position

Keep us updated.

 

[marioklaric]

Dynamic without fins is much different than the fin dynamic, my Pb in no fin dynamic is 75 m but i don t train it a lot. I am more concerned with fin dynamic, anyway, almost all of us started with no fin dynamic at first.
So to get to the point, i think that the main thing that other divers forgot to tell you is that while you re kicking with legs, your hands shoud stay in front of you in arrowlike position, and as soon as you finish with kicking than you do the arm breast stroke.
Then glide. Its individually how long you glide. It is a little hard in the begining , but you will get a hang of it with time. it s really important not to kick and stroke together!!!!
Focus your mind on something relaxing, a whale or a dolphin per example, it helps!

 

[Erik]

Originally posted by marioklaric
i think that the main thing that other divers forgot to tell you is that while you re kicking with legs, your hands shoud stay in front of you in arrowlike position, and as soon as you finish with kicking than you do the arm breast stroke.

......................

 

[Erik]

..............................

Originally posted by Erik
Make sure that when you do your kick, your head is down, with arms pointed straight in front and hands locked, making an arrowhead shape. Stay in that position, as straight as possible, for as long as possible....when you slow down significantly, then pull your arms all the way round to your sides in an overemphasised version of the breaststroke.....this is your power stroke underwater (as opposed to a surface breaststrokeErik Y.

Cheers,
Erik Y.

 

[F27Corsair]

Newbie w/ question

Hi, i've looked over these forums for a long time now, but i had a question i wanted to ask all you experts so i finally decided to post. I am training for the USAF Pararescue program (www.specialtactics.com) and part of the training includes 25m underwater intervals. The technique that the instructors teach seems different than what you guys preach.
The instructors promote a breast stroke w/ a deviation. They say that when your arms start to pull, when they get about 90 degrees parallel with the body, you should bring the hands in together near the chest/stomach area, and push towards your hips. Glide a little, then while frog kicking, bring your hands up (which are still together) from the hips to the streamline position and glide again and repeat.
The 2nd individual in this video is what im talking about. He only shows one full good stroke sequence and doesnt glide much, but hopefully you'll get the point.
http://www.specialtactics.com/MaskSnorkel.asf
Any comments on these techniques would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

-Travis

 

[Amphibious]

Lets Talk turning, have been doing Dynamic w/fins for a little while with 75m as a pb. the tuning iss what always gets me - it's sloppy, out of control, and I'm sure I'm loosing a lot of valuable time/air going through a turn. I keep scratching the hell out of my blades on the side of the pool. not big problem because they cheap ol Gara;s, but I want to get better fins andnot destroy them.

Any sugestions?

and BTW - Corsair - you para boys are #%@*ing nuts!

 

[reidfish]

turning

Yeah, good question. How on earth should I turn with my mono on? I am Mr sloppy when I turn. How should I start too? Any ideas?

 

[Erik]

Re: Newbie w/ question

Originally posted by F27Corsair
The instructors promote a breast stroke w/ a deviation.
-Travis

You are correct Travis, that is the proper form. What may differ is the intensity required by the goal. If speed is the object of your training, then the glide portion is really much shorter, but if distance is the objective, we have to maximize glide time as well as efficency. Just about anyone should be able to do 25 metres underwater, but doing it fast is another story!
Nice to have you here,
Good luck with your training.

As for turning with bi-fins or a mono, there are a few different options and opinions, but the key here is to stay in your relaxed freediving mindstate. As you approach the wall, lift your head enough that you can see the wall, reach out with one hand, maybe touch the floor with the other one. Turn nice and slow horizontally, not fighting the water. Now you can opt to push off the wall or not. If you do, then get your hands back over your head, kick off, and carry on. If you don't want to kick off the wall and are wearing a mono, then make sure that you have the fin in "chamber" for a downstroke as soon as you are ready to go in the opposite direction. This takes a bit of practice to do smoothly during the turn. The turn is relaxed and carefree. If you are wearing bi-fins, then prepare them for an open flutter kick position as the turn progresses. Then point your hands and go.
Some divers do not use the hands forward method, but it is still a good idea to use it at the beginning of every wall, then breastroke the hands once into position...this helps get you moving, and uses muscles that are fresh for the initial acceleration.
I spent a lot of time just practicing turns to get it comfortable, so give that a thought.
Cheers,
Erik Y.

Erik Y.

 

[gerard]

Easy

do your training barefoot.:duh

Regards, gerard.

 

[F27Corsair]

Erik,
Thanks for the input! So the first guy in the video that does a full swooping motion is incorrect, right?
Our goal in the course is to do 25m intervals, so speed is somewhat of a factor. We will go all the way down to 1:30 intervals, meaning we will leave the wall at X time, do the 25m underwater, swim back 25m freestyle sprint on the surface, and then 1:30 later from X, we go again. Typically it takes me :50 to do the exercise leaving me :40 of "catch your breath time" before its time to go again. With this in mind, i usually take an average of 7 strokes, +/- 1 for 25m. Compared to most people that seems like a lot. Am i not gliding enough?

 

[Erik]

F27, I think that the stroke with the "push" at the bottom is much more efficient as the other method, because the other method takes more energy to move less water in the right direction (did that make sense?).
Really we need David Lee here: he has dived over 50 metre deep with no fins, and Topi just did 60 metres last week. Hopefully David will come on here and comment.
I think maybe you could try to emphasise the glide more...you'll need to experiment of course. It's all a balance between how much energy you use while swimming as opposed to the time remaining for breathe-up between cycles.
Hooyah!
Erik Y.

 

[TMcKee]

Personally F27, I can do 25m in about 5 to 6 strokes with the proper gliding. No bull, I counted last night for some odd reason. The less you stroke, the longer you can hold your breath. The guy I train with does this thing where he propels himself slowly in the water using his ankles only(with fins of course), once those massive oxygen starved quadraceps get involved you're in for a hurtin' and by hurtin I mean short dive. This is what killed my "dynamics" in the beginning.

I do negatives before I do anything else underwater. Its good at slowing your heart rate.

Relaxation and efficient swimming style should get you through this pretty easily. Listen to Erik, that style is how I did my first ever 50m dynamic. Streamlining!!!