Ears... again

[portinfer]

Hi
I have noticed that this year I have been diving a bit deeper than last year.

(Last year mostly in the 6m range with some dives to 10m and one to 14m which is my max so far).

This year I'm alot happier with any depth down to 10m and alot of my dives have been around that and I think the max this year so far has been 12m.

Most of this is aspetto spearfishing with maybe 20secs down; 40secs aspetto and 20secs back up... someting like that.

Anyway I have noticed that when I start hitting 9m dives sometimes on the surface I feel a bit disorientated/vision like you have the wrong glasses on !/nauseous.

i thought this was due to lack of surface time but I keep this at 1:30 minimum and normally dive a 5min cycle - ie dive on the start of the 5 min mark on the watch, have a dive of about 1:30 +/- and then surface time of about 3:30mins. I think that this can be discounted as a reason for feeling nauseous as I believe this is enough surface time.

The other thing I considered was dive time. I think that this is fine as I feel comfortable and come up at the first signs of contractions.

With dry statics I normally get contractions around the 3min mark, and in the sea it depends on depth but mostly I am diving between 1:20mins and 2:20 mins. I guess mostly around 1:30 / 1:40min.

So I don't think I am at the edge of my limits - ie I think I can discount samba type reaction ? Any thoughts ?

I think that it might be brought about by equalizing.
I find that the right ear equalises after the left ear. The left goes really easily but I need to concentrate to get the right to eq. more often than not at the 9m mark.

Anyway I know that the ears are responsible for balance so I thought that this might be a reason. Also the depth of 9m to 12m means that the bottom is often obscured. I have noticed that I get sea-sick if there is a swell and I have nothing to focus on - this is disorientation and my head thinks I am somewhere else than my ears !

Any experiences like this ? Hmmm looking forward to a nice winter of murky seasick diving...

So.. do you think it is a)short surface time; b)samba type stuff ; c)equalisation problems c) sumat else ???

Cheers for any advice...
Ed

 

[Almostafish]

Tuck your chin in..

 

[Absolute]

And keep your mouth full of air,

 

[Fondueset]

and don't forget to comb your hair.

 

[Roland]

Ed,

I think there is no easy or conclusive answer with what you describe. I think it could be all you mentioned. :ko To quote your options:

a)short surface time; I would not go for DCS as first possibility. High CO2 levels can "nark" you and hyperventilation can cause these effects too by delaying warning-signs.

b)samba type stuff; could well be, there is no real comparison like I can do static for.. seconds so I can dive for .. seconds. Also warning signs like contractions can be very different during static and diving, especially if you stay a while at depth (even at 10 meters).

c)equalisation problems; if one ear gives problems it can affect your sence of what is up and down or make you feel more seasick. Try simple things like keeping your head/neck straight or tilt the ear that has problems equalising a bit to the surface during descent.

d) somewhat else; a lot is possible. Preferably see a doctor, also do a diving medical examination at the same time if you have none. A freediving course might help you a lot with solving the problem and you might learn a lot, probably also increase your risk awareness, ease of diving and your depth too.

So I would definately see a doctor, get a diving medical and do a freediving course.

 

[DeepThought]

and don't forget to comb your hair.

Don't forget the coat hanger in your suit.

How many times do you equalize on a 9 meter dive? Try equalizing more frequently or even continously. Tilting the head to the left for more synchronous equalization.

Sea sick is a possibility, though for me for the one time I got it it built up on the surface and didn't apear instantly.

Hypo-hypercapnia can be a reason... or a repetitive condition of one or both of those. Try ventilating less in those 3:30 intervals, see what happens. Trying to ventilate more can be risky. :hmm

It can be a blood pressure issue.

I read the concept "alternobar vertigo" before, maybe do a search on that (might be unrelated).

 

[portinfer]

Thanks guys - just back from a dive and had about 19 dives - 10 of those around 10m to 11.5m and the rest in the 5m to 10m range on the swim out.

Felt fine and equalised properly.

I do indeed tuck my chin in, comb my hair and scrub behind my ears...

I took a flaot with a line and a weight today and found it alot easier to focus on that as I went down - then moved a little way away from it at the bottom.

I tend to just equalise on the bottom... Just kidding - I eq. on the surface as I make my duck-dive, then gently eq. every second or so. I can feel when the ears start to get pressurized and they never hurt. Every third eq. or so I blow out a bit of air to eq. the mask.

I can feel that towards the bottom - around 8m or 9m the right ear starts to get more pressured than the left - the left is fine - it just keeps on popping but the right is lagging so when I hit the bottom although the left is totally fine I need to concentrate to eq. the right to the same pressure - it does go and there is no pain at all but I am conscious of the inequality in pressure between them.

On the way up the left is fine but often the right squeals a bit as I slowly ascend - from reading the other post about this I guess the one way valve is a bit sticky on the way back up ?

I think George mentioned a course next summer over here in Guernsey but no details yet.

As I sit here if I drop my jaw, open the eust. tubes a bit and breathe in with the eust. tubes open the left is fine and opens and I can hear a sort of internal noise as I breathe in and out (a sort of rasp in the ears) but the right doesn't do that...
Cheers
Ed

(Oh - didn't catch any fish either ... but had a nice relaxing dive).

 

[Almostafish]

I have sent you a private message. Ta. B

 

[DeepThought]

Ok, here's a quick review on equalization mechanism:
You go down, pressure increases which means there is some power that works on your middle ear space. That power is equal on all if it's perimeter - ear drum, oval window, middle ear walls and the part of the e-tube that is open to the middle ear (remember that one-way valve description).
The eardrum is a tight piece of skin, the walls of the e-tube on the other hand are soft mucos membrane tissues that are knwon to get swollen at times. That power (produced by pressure) will first affect the weakest spot (the spot that needs the least power inorder to move = give in to pressure). In some cases this is the walls of the e-tubes - meaning that the e-tube narrows before your eardrum feels the force working on it. Then when you feel the pressure (=force on your eardrum), you are trying to push air into a narrowed e-tube - in most cases it is ok, in other cases you are having trouble equalizing, in the extreme case - it feels like you are trying to equalize against a wall (turn around! if you'll try to "break" that wall you can rapture your eardrum or the oval window which is even worse!).

I eq. on the surface as I make my duck-dive, then gently eq. every second or so. I can feel when the ears start to get pressurized and they never hurt.

Ed, this is where I see a possible point for improvement, equalize before feeling the pressure on your eardrum, that's when you e-tube might be too narrow/swallen alrady. This is also one of the reasons some people find it harder to equalize the longer the session runs (other can be mucos prduction).

I can feel that towards the bottom - around 8m or 9m the right ear starts to get more pressured than the left

This might suggest that you are gathering an equalization debt in your right ear while going down, you are not it equalizing it fully or you miss some equalizations.

On the way up the left is fine but often the right squeals a bit as I slowly ascend - from reading the other post about this I guess the one way valve is a bit sticky on the way back up ?

Another evidence for a swollen/tight e-tube.

This is just a speculation ofcourse. Try equalizing as many times as you can (even 30 times per 9m dive) since the begining of your dive session, even after a day's rest, see if it still happens. If it doesn't then you might have found the problem. After that you can start reducing the pace to see what works.
Consider even cooporating an equalization with your duck dive (not just before on the surface and just after the duck dive). It might reduce your duckdive's effectiveness - not such a bad thing if pressure debt is what giving you trouble.

I almost never feel the pressure building in my eardrums, I equalize before. If I turn around because of an equalization problem it will usually be because I feel the tubes are shut and I can't equalize against them, not because I feel pressure in my ears. I know my situation is not the common one though.

 

[Absolute]

I just though about this today.

Usually my right ear does it's thing all by it's self. Left ear, well it needs a little work, sometime. Usually my eqing is really easy, hands free. But the other day my right ear was stuck like chuck and really tight. This made me wonder, why.

So the other night I was about to go to sleep and as I rolled over on my left side, I realized that I normally don't sleep on this side. But I had been doing it for a few days now.

So my question is this. Is it possible for one ear to be sticky because it was up all night and for the ear that is down all night to clear fine.

I might set an egg timer and turn over at night from now on to equal them out.

Just a thought.
J

 

[superhornet59]

you know, i have felt the same thing, but that happens only when i equalize too muxh, and the pressure in my ears is higher then that of the water. try it, not until you break your drum obviously, but just until you can start to feel the pressure pretty good. at this point there should not be pain, but in a few seconds you will feel dizzy. mabye your just over-equalizing.

 

[Ricochet]

I often feel some kind of dizzyness on my ascents and sometimes even a few seconds after surfacing. This dizzyness is caused by the air leaving the inner ear. Especially if the ears equalize differently.

Back in the days when I used to scuba dive this dizzyness was a serious problem and sometimes forced me to stop the ascent for a few seconds. Though, its not a big problem anymore these days.

 

[portinfer]

That could be it - the right ear defintiely squeals a bit on the ascent - although on Sunday it was fine - I was super relaxed though so maybe that is the secret... I'll try again tomorrow I think. Thanks for all your input - much appreciated. Ed