Effesub - A better knife for a UK spearo?

[Mr. X]

I've gone through various stages of thinking/preference on dive knives for spearing. First the bigger is better stage (need to cut though nets quick, chop the head off/gut big fish, etc.), quickly realised that a dagger shaped blade has advantages for dispatching fish (the Spider/mini-dagger phase), then discovered the joys of the flat RA limpet sheath and became a confirmed flat knife fan (the RA assagai/Pelaj/Omer flat knife/Picasso Tigre/T-rex phase). Having stabbed myself last year:head, I'm thinking a smaller knife is all that is required & might be better/safer. The Omer Hunter is/was a v. cool small knife with a v. nicely shaped little pointy blade but I still like flat knives.

So I figured a flat version of the Omer Hunter with a full size handle & an RA limpet sheath (perhaps scaled down to size) might be my current ideal knife. Thought it might be a few years before we see such a beast but while exploring the Effesub brand (I think after Ulysses posted some info on a neat stringer they produced), lo & behold, exactly what I was looking for.

KNIFES - KF - Effesub

In fact, they took it a step further and camo'd the sheath!

Is it perfect? Not quite:
It is a little cheaper than the assegai & pelaj flat knives but it's not a cheap knife. I'm not too keen on the open heel -- not too comfortable if you need to apply some force to the butt with the heel of your hand to go through a tough fish skull (sorry). Worse thing, I just noticed the sheath uses velcro on the leg/arm straps - seems like a bad idea to me. The RA limpet sheath uses unbroken thick elastic which cannot come off -- a major feature I think.

Cool knife selection here: Hana Pa`a Hawaii

 

[Magpie]

I have that exact knife but don't use it. Why? Because is a bloney nightmare to get out of that sheath.

I'd hate to have to try and get it out in an emergency. With gloves on its nigh on impossible.

I modified that top part by cutting most of it away and hinging it with some velcro to keep it closed but its still not the easiest. Because its flat there is nothing to get hold of to pull it out.

 

[ickledevil]

Its a nice looking knife but think your right, the sheath looks awkward and the open end of the handle would do my head in! Think a new design is in order... mmmmmm wheres my drill.
At the moment I use this knife#https://www.apnea.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=1_28&products_id=558
Hope that works, if im picky its a little big but they do a shorter version. Love the release mech. from the sheath though, currently on my belt but planning on glueing the sheath covered with neoprene to my suit.
Joe

 

[ulysses]

I've gone through various stages of thinking/preference on dive knives for spearing. First the bigger is better stage (need to cut though nets quick, chop the head off/gut big fish, etc.), quickly realised that a dagger shapped blade had advantages for dispatching fish (the Spider/mini-dagger phase), then discovered the joys of the flat RA limpet sheath and became a confirmed flat knife fan (the RA agassai/Pelaj/Omer flat knife/Picasso Tigre/T-rex phase). Having stabbed myself last year:head, I'm thinking a smaller knife is all that is required & might be better/safer. The Omer Hunter is/was a v. cool small knife with a v. nicely shaped little pointy blade but I still like flat knives.

So I figured a flat version of the Omer Hunter with a full size handle & an RA limpet sheath (perhaps scaled down to size) might be my current ideal knife. Thought it might be a few years before we see such a beast but while exploring the Effesub brand (I think after Ulysses posted some info on a neat stringer they produced), lo & behold, exactly what I was looking for.

KNIFES - KF - Effesub

In fact, they took it a step further and camo'd the sheath!

Is it perfect? Not quite:
It is a little cheaper than the assegai & pelaj flat knives but it's not a cheap knife. I'm not too keen on is the open heel -- not too comfortable if you need to apply some force to the butt with the heel of your hand to go through a tough fish skull (sorry). Worse thing, I just noticed the sheath uses velcro on the leg/arm straps - seems like a bad idea to me. The RA limpet sheath uses unbroken thick elastic which cannot come off -- a major feature I think.

Cool knife selection here: Hana Pa`a Hawaii

X, actually the Effesub KF knive is quite inexpensive, considering the discounted price at which Laurent of CSM.net sells it :

http://www.chasse-sous-marine.net/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1117

Italian champ Massimo Quattrone uses the KF, so it can't be that ill-conceived.

Personally, I prefer to keep things simple and use the Italian made dagger 'sub 11d' for ages (it's sold under various brands including Spetton, Aquatys, Apnea, Riffe). DB store does it at around EUR15 or even less.

Cheers,
ulysses

 

[Mr. X]

Thanks for the info. Ulysses - I see what you mean. Excellent link. Wish I'd learnt French rather than German at school (or Italian:inlove).

Magpie, it is interesting to hear about the real life implications of some of those design decisions - your frustration comes across (BTW you have PM).

IckleDevil, I like the blade designs of those new Omer knives but am a bit wary of the release mechanism (having experienced a "quick loss" mechanism), so it is interesting to hear that you really like it. How does it work -- do you have to pinch the sides in?

I didn't like the look of Picasso Tigre when I first saw it but it is growing on me. I think Miles has one (among others). Ditto the Omer Hunter, although I fear they may have discontinued it now - I hope not.

 

[ulysses]

X, I'd forget about the Tigre. Like a lot of Picasso material (all?) it corrodes by the speed of light :rcard ... and as for the Hunter, well, I am sure it would make a wonderful b-day present for a boyscout, however, for spearfishing it would seem ... O'mer(de)

You never mentioned (or I've overread) as to whether you want an armed-mounted knive. Assuming that: I see at lot of Italian spearos using the Seac Samurai. Simple, practical, excellent value for money.

Cheers,
ulysses

 

[Mr. X]

X, I'd forget about the Tigre. Like a lot of Picasso material (all?) it corrodes by the speed of light :rcard ... and as for the Hunter, well, I am sure it would make a wonderful b-day present for a boyscout, however, for spearfishing it would seem ... O'mer(de)
...

roflThanks for the warning. I'm pretty meticulous about washing & oiling my gear (former boy scout). I don't own any Picasso gear but I get the impression that it's well designed but not particularly long lasting (I get a similar impression about the Cressi Comanche but I noticed you can get the spare parts all over the place and at reasonable prices, which is good). Is Picasso a Spanish company?

Yes, I've seen the Samurai being sold regularly on eBay recently:

[ame=http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Samuri-Wrist-Knife-for-Divers-Spear-Fishing-SEAC_W0QQitemZ380022087850QQihZ025QQcategoryZ29577QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem]Samuri Wrist Knife for Divers & Spear Fishing - SEAC on eBay, also, Dive Knives, SCUBA Snorkelling, Sporting Goods (end time 04-May-08 22:21:00 BST)[/ame]
It does look good & similar in concept to the Omer Hunter and probably works just as well, although I prefer the Hunter's blade, handle & sheath (prefer the simple catch on the Samurai though).

Actually I am not looking for an arm mounted knife. It seems safer to stick with leg, or belt, mounting if only carrying one knife, in case an arm is trapped or injured); I'm trying to keep the gear that I carry fairly minimal. That said, I guess something like an arm or belt mounted Samurai/Hunter/Laser, which can be quickly drawn would speed up & streamline the dispatching process (important for competitions I would think). Perhaps with a second larger safety knife (either flat so that it is unobtrusive or with a proper handle so that it can be quickly found & drawn) on the leg or belt.

BTW I notice on other threads that several people do not like the wide velcro strap fitted on the European version of the Omer Mini Laser knife. Apparently it comes undone too easily, sometimes resulting in the loss of the knife - pity, the sheath looks excellent. Perhaps a result of the knife & sheath being a little too heavy/not flat enough or the spearos' bulging biceps. Velcro can sometimes get gunked up too (I wonder if it might not work as well in water - perhaps less friction for the hooks & loops). I hope they figure out a way to improve it as its a nice design.

 

[Magpie]

The problem I had with the mini laser arm sheath is not the velcro coming undone. I found you just couldn't get it to stay in place without doing it so tight it cuts off the blood supply!

No matter how I tried it, or where on the arm, within 5minutes it would be flopping around loose. Solved now with a bodged wide elastic and velcro home made strap.

 

[ickledevil]

I like my omer a lot, possibly my favourite knife so far. Its very similar to the Riffe knife but the release is a lot more sturdy (have both) You pinch the grey sides in (as can been seen above the small pointy bits on the very bottom of the grey portion (see above) click through the holes on the sheath (can just be seen above) My knife is the larger version of this with a steel top section to the handle as well which is a nice addition. I have the sheath threaded on to my belt at present the hole for this is a nice tight fit also. But for safetys sake I also have a lanyard from the eye in the knife to a 'D' ring on my belt. So far no problems which is more than I can say for my previous knives.. all have either fallen out or the straps come apart etc resulting in a lost knife. Only exception being another omer knife I have with a similar securing system to the Samurai. Mind you the rest of the knife is horrid! lol. Only issue I did have was when gutting some mullet near the shore, left knife hanging by its lanyard, and when splashed by a wave it sliced straight through it! Luckily I noticed and have a better one now plus dont leave the knife dangling anymore.. its either in my hand or in the sheath. Mind you shows the knife will hold a good edge! As for how well the mechanism will hold up with prolonged use I cant tell you yet. But signs so far are good.
Joe

 

[Mr. X]

What do you use for a lanyard? I use fishing mono, maybe 30 or 40lb, which I form into a coil (using a dowel & hot water) to keep it out of the way. However, I found that pulled through my soft sheath. So now I attach the mono coil to thin (3mm) bungee (which acts as a more solid anchor & shock absorber) which is looped around the thick leg-loop of the sheath. I tuck any excess behind the leg strap. This has worked well so far.

 

[Mr. X]

Magpie kindly let me have his old Effesub knife. I thought I would post some impressions for others who might be interested.

The size & shape of the knife are just what I was looking for & quite clear from the above images. A few things surprised me when the knife arrived. The metal used is somewhat thicker than I had expected and consequently the knife is quite heavy despite its diminutive size. It uses a less shiney stainless steel like my cheap but good Taiwanese spearo knife.

I cleaned the knife up with an oil stone & was shocked when the tip snapped off!! Fortunately it was only a small piece and I was able to reform a new tip with file & sharpening stones. Unfortunately the new sharp tip pieced the thin sheath material first time out -- but I can easily tape over that (I have been thinking of using the simpler, deeper RA Limpet sheath with it anyway --I have happily used one of these for my main leg mounted knife for a couple of years now).

The weight is potentially an issue if you wear this on your arm as it will increase the likelihood of it falling out of the sheath. The camo (nice touch) sheath does include a cloth cap to help prevent this but as Magpie already pointed out, it makes the knife difficult to unsheath with gloved hands. The unusual open spanner end hinders matters further. Magpie already modified the cap with an ingenious velcro side opening and I have added a braid cord with an old RA wishbone toggle/bead to help pull the knife out (I think this is near essential when using a flat knife with a flat sheath like this or the RA Limpet sheath).

I've yet to catch a fish while wearing this, so more on that later...

[Pity RA (or somebody) doesn't make a shorted version of the Limpet sheath specifically for the arm. The existing Limpet sheath has a slightly longer top strap for the calf, the opposite of what you'd want for arm mounting but, being elastic, it will probably work despite that.]

 

[Mr. X]

Update, I've stopped carrying the Effesub. I could not did get the point quite sharp enough again & for the reasons mentioned above (weight, insecure fitting, & awkward retrieval) - and carrying extra gear is more burden than benefit, as I still felt I needed to carry my larger leg-mounted knife. I'm not happy with the point of that either, so have been using the large, sharp spike of my RA float stringer or, occasionally, the rather small spike of my Omer mono belt stringer for dispatching this season.

I like the look of the new Omer US Laser: Omer

- although I prefer the look of the older Hunter model. Better yet would be that blade with a full size, flat, metal handle - thinner than the Effesub, with a rounded end and quillons to push against.

Spearo Dave had a point when he suggest using a Kitchen Devil knife some years ago. Noticed this one on eBay: [ame=http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280272478112&cguid=cdc4c0af11c0a0e201d5d5c5ffc522ad]KITCHEN DEVIL SMALL BLADED VERY SHARP VEGETABLE KNIFE on eBay, also Individual Knives, Kitchen Knives, Kitchen, Home Garden (end time 29-Oct-08 14:22:23 GMT)[/ame]

Hard to beat the price.

 

[Erik]

After the loss of yet another knife due to it not getting into a sheath properly (10 or so I think since I started diving) including the beautiful OMER Mini Laser recently, I started clipping knife/sheath to the mono on the bottom of my gun that connects to my floatline. That way I can see the f###ing thing when I put it away and make sure it doesn't fall out.
Wish me luck.

 

[azapa]

love the kitchen knife thingy X. I am a firm believer in diving DIY and a hard plastic (from a ice cream container maybe) wrapped in sliced car tire inner tube, kitchen knife inside, and Velcro holder is on my list. I plan to make the sheath and travel sans. knife, buying $1 version on arriving (and avoiding check in hassles)

 

[Amphibious]

I've been using the Spetton version of the Laser (as pictured above). Spetton, Omer, Imersion, Riffe, and a few others stick their name on the same knife (blade length varries). it's cheap, simple and seems just about perfect for my needs.

 

[Mr. X]

love the kitchen knife thingy X. I am a firm believer in diving DIY and a hard plastic (from a ice cream container maybe) wrapped in sliced car tire inner tube, kitchen knife inside, and Velcro holder is on my list. I plan to make the sheath and travel sans. knife, buying $1 version on arriving (and avoiding check in hassles)

The RA Limpet sheath is a well designed & made professional, flat sheath -- but it did strike me (& I think Foxfish) that with the right materials and some craft skills, you could probably make one. Although they are reasonably priced - so if you can get one, just buy it! Of course, things often aren't as simple as they appear. It appears to be made out of tough black tape or cloth wrapped around a former (ice cream container plastic might work) with wide, continuous elastic loops (no velcro to come loose). I got some waterproof black gaffer/duct tape from a local market, which I used to reinforce the Effesub sheath -- might be just the thing to make a sheath with.

 

[azapa]

a bit OT but you would be amazed how long/well good quality electrical tape holds up, especially around rubber.

another example: depth markers, I wrapped 1 band = 5M, 2 = 10, 3 =15, 4= 20 on my white floatline 6 months ago and it has not budged.

good stuff!

 

[Mr. X]

Yes, I was surprised to hear electrical tape is quite waterproof (I think from Magpie).

Found this link on old diving knives - or should I say dive machetes, saws and stiletto daggers! English diving knifes

 

[Mr. X]

I've been thinking recently that a simple belt mounted iki spike might be the way to go. Reading the forum on ikijimi spikes this week, I came across an old post by Miles, apparently that's what he used. Also came across the rather cool DIY one - although I've yet to come up with the parts for one. RA have the perfect thing, their "RA Iki Spike" with a simple stainless steel tube belt sheath. But the last price I saw (somewhere abroad I think, a couple of years ago) was around £35/$64 - about twice what I would expect/be willing pay.

Also a new one from Pelaj at around quarter of the price (£10/$18-ish), might fit the bill:
http://www.scubasworld.com/proddetail.php?prod=ikijimispike
http://www.kayakfishingsupplies.com/servlet/the-901/Pelaj-Iki-Jimi-Spike/Detail

There are some simpler, cheaper products available, especially from New Zealand:
http://www.svord.com/pages/catalog/KIS.htm

Exactus Ltd
Iki Spikes

Fish Hook Remover & IKI Spike - Discount Fishing Supplies

Iki Spike stainless steel

Several inexpensive ones here too: http://http://www.decoro.co.nz


Some of our American friends mentioned using ice picks. I don't think ice picks were ever as common in the UK but I see several on ebay.com in the US. The old CocaCola ones are reasonably compact but have wooden handles & most likely carbon steel spikes.