Eios Freedown 3mm v Orca Free

[DivingDane]

Ok Guys and girls.

what are your opinions on the above suits in regards to the following requirements:

- Competition wetsuit for Depth Freediving disciplines
- warm waters only (nothing below 22 degrees C)
- CNF and CWT

the 2 suits i am considering are;
1. Orca Free
2. Elios 3mm 2pc, Freedown suit with Nylon superstretch inner lining.

the hood isnt really much of an advantage becuase water temperature is warm so thermal protection isnt so important.

i like the idea of the made to measure suit so it should fit well, however i have an Orca Rs1 and it also fits REALLY well so i gues the Free would fit well too.

Price for the 2suits isnt an issue as i am able to get poth suit for almost the same price only $50 more for the ORCA.

soo what do you think, if you were heading to Egypt for setting PB's and diving warm water for max dives what would you own.

i already have a lined suit for training and spearing so the suit would only be used for max dives.

thanks

DD

 

[REVAN]

Sorry but I don’t really have any input to offer, but I hope to see the responses from others. I’m just beginning to research freediving wetsuits.

I’ve always preferred freediving in warm water so that I don’t need a wetsuit, because nothing beats the mobility and flexibility of skin. I’ve found that any wetsuit I’ve ever used makes it so difficult to tuck my shoulders in tight around my head that it uses more energy to hold a streamline pose with the suit on than you can get drag reduction from the muscle compression it offers. If the water is warm anyway, do you really need a suit to get a PB? If so, how much difference does it make?

 

[B-J]

First of all: why would you buy the freedown with lining? It is so much better without it. And if you`re not completely dry it`s so much easier to get into the unlined with som soap or similar. If you`re using the suit for depth in warm waters only I would not choose the warmest and most buoyant neoprene there is Try the thinnest daiwabo suit instead. (With 1,5mm you will need lining though.)
I`ve heard the neckseal in the Orca suit is great, but with a hood, that is never a problem.

 

[trux]

... If the water is warm anyway, do you really need a suit to get a PB? If so, how much difference does it make?

Yes, the difference is quite important. I think you studied hydrodynamics little bit when working on your fins, so perhaps you heard that an important part of the drag of a human body is caused by the oscillations of the skin. If you look at videos of swimmers or divers without any suit, you can see the folds on the skin pretty obviously. And when looking at a freediver in the pool, you see it the most during the turns, after the push off the wall, when the speed is the highest - the folds in the skin slow you down pretty seriously.

Hard to tell what difference it makes on one's PB, but it is certainly couple of meters. I improved my DNF PB by some additional 60m after I started using a suit, but there were more factors involved, not only the suit. However, you can see the influence of the suit when you try minimizing the number of strokes per pool - often you can cut the number of strokes to the half when using a good wetsuit.

 

[azapa]

First of all: why would you buy the freedown with lining? It is so much better without it. And if you`re not completely dry it`s so much easier to get into the unlined with som soap or similar. If you`re using the suit for depth in warm waters only I would not choose the warmest and most buoyant neoprene there is Try the thinnest daiwabo suit instead. (With 1,5mm you will need lining though.)
I`ve heard the neckseal in the Orca suit is great, but with a hood, that is never a problem.

i have a lined suit with slick outer. Not only easy to put (minor issue, i love to lube.. ) but it lasts a long time. The lining make it 5 times (guessing) stronger. I have put my hands through thin slick-slick suits before and it is annoying and expensive. depends on the use I guess

 

[Fondueset]

No doubt a suit makes a huge diff. The Orca swim skin I used in the Bahamas was amazing. I've not tried the Orca free - But it was designed with plenty of input from Will T. - ( i think its what he wore for that last world record). In your shoes thats probably the way I'd go.

 

[B-J]

The lining make it 5 times (guessing) stronger. I have put my hands through thin slick-slick suits before and it is annoying and expensive. depends on the use I guess

I`ve had my suit for a long time and never had any problem with it. That`s the most fragile suit Elios makes. (3mm yamamoto) If you use enough lube it just slides on. A good tip is to try out some neoprene and see how much you can do before it tears of. Elios usually sends some patches of neoprene along with a suit. Of course lined suits are alot stronger than an unlined suit, but for personal bests you would want the best performing suit available. The ease of movement in an unlined 3mm yamamoto suit is not comparable with what you find in let`s say an Apex2.

 

[DivingDane]

yeah constructive conversation! i like!

not interested in no suit, i get to cold to quickly.

the main reason for the lined suit in Freedown is:
- more robust than open cell (i have a friend with an opencell 3mm freedown and its has more tears than seams in i!!! its not so much putting it on but taking it off that causes the problem)
- Freedown is smoother than the Daiwabo neoprene so wil offer the least resistance of the 2.

also Yamamoto being more felixible than Daiwabo should in theory mean than a lined Yamamoto freedown suit would be at least as flexible if not more than a high density Daiwabo suit.

i agree that a high density suit is more beneficial when it comes to bouyancy change.

have decided to go with a Elios suit taylor made. and it WILL be lined, i'm not interested in buying a suit that i will tear. if it were a 5mm then no problems opencell it is but in 3mm i have seen what happens to them.

now the question is which is more beneficial:
- Yamamoto with Freedown (the smoothest suit, but with bouyancy change)
- Daiwabo HD (smoothskin but not so smooth, but very low bouyancy change)

keep the input coming!

DD

 

[B-J]

You should not be worried about the flexibility in the Daiwabosuit. I just got one i 1,5mm and it is very felxible. It is just so thin. But the buoyancy is a bigger issue I think. That suit probably has 1/3 of the buoyancy of the 3mm. In addition the yamamoto gets worn out pretty fast.

 

[BennyB]

I would also be keen on hearing people's opinions on the tearing properties of freedown outer/open cell inner versus freedown outer/lined inner. I have heard stories that the lining can cause enough resistance to cause tearing (something i'm a bit familiar with on my 3mm Heiwa smooth outer/superstretch inner); whereas a well lubed open cell will be less likely to tear when putting on & taking off.

Cheers
Ben

 

[Fondueset]

I've only got 3 mil heiwa suits - open cell/smooth. I've had no problems with tearing with them. I've got a 5 mil yamamoto on the way - should be interesting.

For your application - if its a suit from Elios (as mentioned - I'd go for the Orca Free at that price!) I'd go smooth out/nylon in in 2 or 1.5mil - whatever is available. I really like diving with minimal weights.

 

[cdavis]

I hear'ya on getting cold easy, me too. However, I dive a lot in 21 c and can go for a couple of hours of moving very little with a 3 mil Elios. For a competition and less time in the water, could you tolerate a 2 mill suit? Not sure Elios makes one, but it would be a third less buoyancy change, not to be sniffed at.

Connor