Elios FREEDOWN suit (Hi-perfom)

[Shark 1980]

Hi guys,
Any experience with this suit?
I have a lot of experiences with suits... have already had more then 10 suits (Omer, Cressi, Beuchat and custome made Diveskin and Elios - lining / smoothskin / mesk skin, made from yamamoto / heiwa / namliong).

Now I use Elios Mesh skin (namliong) for recreational freediving and it is a great suit especially because of his resistance against tears, but I consider to buy FREEDOWN for competitive freediving and for swimming-pool training...
(I mean open cell inside / supersmooth outside and heiwa or yamamoto material in 3mm version)

Do you have any experience with this suit?

1) what is the resistance against tears compare to traditional smoothskin?
2) what is the elasticity? (I am afraid this material could be a little rigid especially in 5mm version)
3) what is the hydrodynamic effect? ( Is that really better in compare with traditional smoothskin or is that only about marketing?)
4) what is the resistance against compression in depth? (I suppose it should be much more better than traditional suits).

What I am afraid of:
One freediver told me that this suit is much more resistant against tears, but when a crack is made then the neopren almost explode and split at that point because of it is pre-compressed material... is that truth?

And do you have any experience with specific changes on the cut of the jacket (on shoulders) which Elios offer to make the position with arms straight over the head more comfortable?

Who don´t know what I am talking about... looks at this site: Spear fishing

Thanks for your comments...

 

[samdive]

I had a freedown suit and didn't like it - a few people I dived with had the same. We have now gone back to either HEIWA or YAMAMOTO (they are three different types of neoprene)

Yes it does kind of explode when it cracks. Overall it's not as flexible or soft as either of the above - but does seem a bit more shiny which I suppose could make it more hydrodynamic but not so you'd really notice.

All three have good resistance to compression against depth.

DO get it cut so you can put your arms over your head - although if you buy Heiwa or Yamamoto, they are pretty stretchy anyway

My recommendations would to to choose Heiwa, if you are going to wear your suit a lot and Yamamoto if you want a competition suit that you're going to wear just a few times a year. Yamamoto is a little more flexy and comfortable than Heiwa but a lot more fragile and goes baggy with sustained use.

good luck

S

 

[Shark 1980]

Hi "Lady of a Lake"
Thank you for your point of view... that is what I was afraid of.
Too rigid, with less elasticity and explode when it craks :rcard

Maybe I should stay with my Nam-liong Mesh skin for open watter and go for smoothskin in swimming pool.

As regards Yamamoto / Heiwa I know the difference, cos I have already had a lot of suits from elios.

As regards elasticity and the position of arms ...I would like to try, because still have problems with that... for example I was convinced by staff from Elios that the best suit for swimming pool is 1,5mm lining interior / smoothskin exterior, so I bought this suit, but because of the internal lining the suits is too tough and when I want to swim in hydrodynamics position with arms over the head it draw more than my 5mm Nam-liong Mesh skin... what is really sad. So I have to swim with arms along the body to save some energy and oxygen.

Do you have some tip for perfect "swimmingpool" competitive suit?

Thanks a lot

 

[Shark 1980]

Maybe you will be surprised why I need suit for swimmingpool training / comp. but in my country swimmingpools are about 24-27°C ..so a little cold for swimming trunks... 1,5 or 2mm wetsuit works the best for me there..

 

[samdive]

In my view the perfect suit for either swimming pool or deep diving is one with smoothskin outside and open cell inside - but get smoothskin heiwa or yamamoto - not smoothskin freedown

Maybe get a 3ml for the pool and a 5ml for the deep stuff. That's what I've always done. Tried a 7ml once but the extra thickness meant quite a loss in elasticity and because the suit didn't flex well, it leaked a lot and was not as warm as a good 5ml.

 

[Finnfrog]

Hi!

I'm also planning to get 3 mm smoothskin suit, but for CNF only. This is what Elios sent me as options they recommend:

"1) Suit 3mm Smoothskin outside Black / Open cell inside Neoprene Heiwa Medium density rubber, complete of jacket closed with hood incorporated + High waist pants in tailor made Price Euro 185,00 (this is the best-seller for deep freediving, competition, always very elastic, warmth and aderent to the body, but also very delicate and for get into must use always talkum or water-soap)

2) Suit 3mm Smoothskin outside Black / New Black coating cell inside Neoprene Heiwa Medium density rubber, complete of jacket closed with hood incorporated + High waist pants in tailor made Price Euro 225,00 (this is the Top-model for deep freediving, competition, always very elastic, warmth and aderent to the body and very slippery to get into but always very delicate)

These are the best compromise between elasticity, comfort, warmth and good resistance against deep compression."

I haven't decided yet should I get Heiwa with med or high dencity. Does anyone have experiences how big the difference is between these too dencities (warmnes, flexibility, resistance against deep compression)?

 

[Shark 1980]

To "Samdive":
Interesting recognition about your 7mm suit and its warmness. I consider to buy 7mm suit for freediving in Norway with killerwhales I would like to go with my friend maybe in future... maybe it should be made from more elastic Yamamoto only and with the pre-formed cut for arms over the head.

I also prefere suits with open-cell inside... really don´t like lining, especially inside.

Thanks for the advice about free-down! Relly helpfull for me.


To "Finnfrog"
I have never had a suit from Heiwa with high dencity from Elios. But had one from Diveskin but don´t like it. The higher density provide higher resistance against deep compression + higher warmnes, but cause a loss of flexibility and isn´t so much comfortable... And what said "samdive" before... loss of flexibility can also mean a loss of warmnes if it leak.. Anyway I didn´t like that..

 

[B-J]

I bought the 2nd generation of Elios Freedown and it seems that freedown just means an outside coating with hydrodynamic benefits. Now you can choose what kind of neoprene you want in the suit and what colour you want on your outside coating. (red, blue or gold) I have 3mm yamamoto and it is the red freedown. Confusing? Yes.
I know the first freedownsuits were "special," but now it seems like it`s abit different.

 

[Kars]

I own a 3mm Heiwa HIGH density, smoothskin, nylon lining inside suit, with arms over head adaptation.

I used it during Nordic Deep 2008.

Though the variation in buoyancy nicely goes very gentle, and the warmth enough for 1 deep dive (surf temp 19 c - depth 4 c), I don't like the stiffness of the suit. The durability is nice, and I have used many times also inside out.
Though I have not used a 3mm medium density for deep diving, I think I rather would have the suit of my dive buddy, 3mm Heiwa medium smooth skin, super stretch nylon inside with arms over head option. I prefer medium over high density because of big difference in arm flexibility.

I would consider a low density suit, for more flexibility and less buoyancy at a shallower depth. Though I now use only 1,5 - 2kg, I would have only 1,5KG or 1 KG of weight, and just swim quickly to 10m, know my suit lost all it's buoyancy and drop down from than on to the plate.
For adding some warmth, I would ask Elios to put seals on the arm and legs and have a additional 3mm sleeveless stretchy neoprene shirt.

Other considerations are the triathlon suits, as demonstrated by the Kiwi's. Orca and 2XU as brands come to mind. Those are very flexible suits, fit very snug, with super stretchy nylon lining inside and variable thickness's at the different places. Usually something like 3mm on the legs, 5 on the chest, 2 on the arms. Resulting in a very light arm over head resistance.
Disadvantage is these have no hoods, so very chilly in the sea, the cold also may hurt your equalisation. Using a cut off hood from an old suit may be a cheap and good solution to this.

A friend of mine remarked recently: "you freedivers seem to need a suit for every discipline". that coupled with this tread got me thinking

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

 

[Mullins]

Kars, do you think high density pants + medium density top would be ok?

 

[jome]

I have a 3mm "el cheapo" elios suit. HD ecoline or whatever, no coating, basic smootshkin.

It's best suit I've owned so far. Really good bang for a buck. Not saying it couldn't better, but I find it comfortable, warm and buoyancy change is really non existent compared to my old 5mm. You can do pretty ok FRC dives with it too - not much difference to 1.5mm or no suit in my opinnion in terms of buoyancy change. I've never worn an md 3mm so it's hard to compare, but at least hd 3mm does not completely suck. It's not very warm though, but you're good for one max dive in any water I'd say. But for a longer sessions in cold water I cannot recommend it (I only use it for the peak of summer, competitions and diving in warmer climates).

Personally I've found the flexibility ok - much bigger difference in flexibility would come from nylon lining as per Kars's suit. Any nylon lined suit (even the 1.5mm pool suit I have) feels like you have armor on compared to the 3mm suit. I haven't found durability an issue either. Again, I don't know if it's a property of HD or 3mm in general, but I've torn it only once when I slipped and fell on a concrete pier and my knee looked much worse than the suit that time So for a "competition" suit I'd say nylon is redundant for 3mm. For a recreational suit it might be ok. Speaking of which - everyone always reaves elios, but the Marea suits I've seen are pretty good. They make "semi-lined" suits too where you have nylon on the arms, lower legs and butt areas (most risky for tears), but the joints and most of the surface area is smoothskin. Seems to be a pretty good compromise in terms of comfort vs. durability vs. performance.

 

[Kars]

Yes Dave, HD trousers and MD top, I think should work.
When you decide to have lining, ask for some seals on the ankles.

Ideally I would like to have for deep diving the moving parts in very flexible neoprene, and the other places HD neoprene.

Now my HD suit is limiting my breathing and it costs energy to have arms over head even though it is specially cut for that position. Maybe I should get creative and cut up my suit and put some soft neoprene at the right places to facilitate easier movement?

Kars

 

[B-J]

Kars: If you want a warmer suit with seals, why do you use nylon inside your suits? My suit has somekind of seal around the wrists. Even from pushoffs in my DNF I don`t have any water entering. But you should order your suit a couple of cm shorter in the arms and also abit tighter around the wrists.
My freedownsuit is my first smoothskin, and I`ve had no problem with rips or tears. I haven`t been specially careful with it either. But if you want a suit to be solid and still be as warm as possible, then you might want to consider an Elios sandwich-suit. (Smooth both inside and outside with lining in between.)

 

[Shark 1980]

To: B-J
the "sandwich-suit" is no more in Elios production... I discused it with them a few weeks ago. They said there was a problem with watter getting betwen these two levels of neopren...

 

[salibandy]

I have a Heiwa 3mm mid density suit in Freedown. It's practically indestructable. Seems really tough. It's nowhere near as soft as Yamamoto suits tough, quite slightly at the elbow and the back and looks ugly. But I'm just particular. Oh well.

 

[chrismar]

I've got a 5mm Heiwa MD smoothie for deep diving & spearfishing and have a suit for DNF on the way. It's a 3mm Heiwa MD, with 2mm on the arms & hood and I have a 2mm vest to go with it. We shall see how that goes.

 

[Shark 1980]

To Chrismar:
The 3mm Heiwa MD suit with 2mm on hte arms and hood is from Elios?
It could be interesting but I have never heard that Elios would make such combinations. I think their the most thin wetsuit in version smootskin / opencell is 2,2 cm.
The thinner are only with lining inside or outside.... or are my informations too old?

 

[chrismar]

To Chrismar:
The 3mm Heiwa MD suit with 2mm on hte arms and hood is from Elios?
It could be interesting but I have never heard that Elios would make such combinations. I think their the most thin wetsuit in version smootskin / opencell is 2,2 cm.
The thinner are only with lining inside or outside.... or are my informations too old?

Yes, it's from elios. It uses an inner coating (black coating), but no lining. I think the thicknesses they are willing to do depend on the neoprene in question.

 

[B-J]

Now I use my upper part of my 3mm yamamoto freedown in the pool. My suit has gotten compressed so I only need to use 2kg extra for dynamic. I think 3mm is the thinnest they want to make yamamoto without lining. During training even this gets a bit warm, but for a competition this would probably be very suitable for a competition in 26-28`C.