Epoxy coating….a Big Big mess

[ihab]

I took some advise about coating my wooden gun with West System Epoxy, after thinning it at 5% with Acetone.
The result:-
1- A very sticky surface that seems it doesn't want to dry although I've left it to dry for 5 days now.
2- In some parts of the gun, the epoxy seemed to have formed some sort of texture of it's own, i.e., not a smooth surface feel or shine.
3- It scratches easily, leaving a white-ish scratch mark.
4- I'm very mad.:rcard

Can't wait to hear views of the experts on this.

Thanks,
Ihab​

 

[Pav]

i'm sure some better help will follow, but my view..

Epoxy is a thermoset plastic, and requires a catalyst (hardener) to cure. Quantity you add depends on how cold or hot it is where you are curing it. You could try moving it to a warmer area, but you'd expect it to have cured by now.

I have worked in polyester resin, and this requires wax to be added to form a surface than can be sanded or it will remain tacky. Not sure if this is the case with epoxy? The reason why it is sold without wax is so you can laminate , and you finish the surface with what is cold a hotcoat (which includes the wax). Search "make a surfboard".. but as I said this is Polyster resin... NOT epoxy resin.

Finally I guesse if it was me I would wipe an area with a cloth soaked in acetone to see if it can be removed as it does sound like it hasn't cured.

As they say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, so you may want to wait for other posts to clarify this!

 

[foxfish]

This sort of problem comes up all the time, in my opinion epoxy is foremost a glue in fact just about the best glue you can use to build a speargun however it is not a varnish!
I would try to rub off the top sticky surface with acetone & then try to get back to the wood by using wet n dry sand paper. In the worst case you might have to scape the stuff of with a burr edge scraper?
I use two pack polyurethane marine grade varnish to get a very good finish but i have managed to get a reasonable finish with epoxy. You need ideal conditions, temp, humidity & the epoxy needs to be slightly warmer than the material it will be applied to.
Apply very thin coats & sand down between, after three coats sand again & then polish with rubbing compound. Even if you can manage a smooth top coat the epoxy will turn opaque in time as it has no sun block additives.
Four - eight coats of two pack will make you gun shine like no epoxy can & it is a lot easier to apply.

 

[pvilela]

There are severall kinds of epoxies systems, and this is not marketing
what appened to you it is not strange, and it is very common
1 st- follow always what the manufacter says on the can, if you thin the mix with acetone, you simple screw it, if you want to thin it, do it only with a product from the same brand, if not you already know the result
2nd - As i said, you can find diferent kind of epoxies, so you can find it to glue, higher viscocity were you had microfibres, or with less viscocity, normaly special to laminate.
you should had microbubbles to thiner epoxies, for preventing drops to form during curing time.
So my advice is to sand it , and expoxi it again with no acetone inside
My question is one, is the West system so thick? if it isnt just aplied it, and you have your problem solved
normally i use SP system epoxies references 106 and 115
i hope i help

 

[popolarbear]

my 2cents. i dont own a wood gun, but if i was going to do this coating i would use 10,000 lb epoxi by Devcon. (available at wwalmartt). you will need to use something like a fishing rod drying rack that turns your blank. or set up two pieces of plastic ice cream buckets with groves and keep turning over the next hour. drys in like an hr(cures). use liberaly and put a heavy enough coat that it almost drips and it will cure hard as nails. this is what the custom fishing lure builders make the toughest lures for toothy prey. one two part kit is under $5 and should compleate most guns i would think but if in doubt get two.

 

[foxfish]

I have tried this using a old record player - it dont work!
Epoxy is very hard to use as a finish coat, it tends to form a giant orange peel effect with lots of little pools & hollows, this happens even when rotating.
Just use two pack!!?

 

[Marwan]

Ihab, I hope youre not talking about my birthday present!

 

[ihab]

Marwanski;

You mean you still did not receive your birthday present yet....that's all I talk about lately so this may be an issue.
It's getting very hot, windy with sand in Egypt.........time to sharpen those spears.
BTW, so that I do not change the topic...TEAK :tTEAK :tTEAK OIL ALTHEWAY....much better than epoxy.

When will you be due for a visit here?....we need to setup a small trip.

Cheers,
Ihab

 

[popolarbear]

"this using a old record player " i think that was too fast rotating. you would need slightly slower. a rotisery motor used for chicken is ideal speed. it shouldnt turn out like orange peel. you did something wrong. Fishing rod guid wraps and custom fishing lures are made this way, both with epoxi. and they are smoth as glass and hard as nails if you get good epoxi. also you can take a lighter and gently and slowly warm an area that may have slight imperfection and it will flow out. take a look at the lure building website the absolute best english site is "Tackleunderground.com"
the subject of indestructable clear coats has been disscussed in depth for the last several years, A good number of comercial lure manufacturers are also registered active users and you will find this website impressive and adicting...
turning a avery intricatly 3-d detailed lure and having that clear coat dry evenly can be difficult, but a smooth flat surface barrel, should be entry level work...

 

[popolarbear]

oh, it is nearly impossible to find how to get into the actual lurebuilding form. but hopefully this link will get you there. you can do a search.
this site has had nearly 100,000posts in the last two years or so since they lost the old server.

Tackleunderground


also there are tutorials on how to build lure drying racks( tumblers)

 

[foxfish]

Thank you Popolarbear for you ideas but I dont think it was the speed because I also tried using an electric drill tuning very slowly for the same effect!
I think it is possible to use epoxy to get a beautiful mirror smooth finish because I have seen plenty of examples but I dont think it is easy to use the same type of epoxy that we use to glue up our guns with?
I have built many guns that have a beautiful glass like finish but it was very time consuming & difficult to achieve.
I have had to apply many coats & each one has to be sanded back with wet & dry & then polished with rubbing compounds - not easy at all?

Maybe there are certain types of epoxy specifically made to top coat wood?

My point is - this same problem comes up all the time on lots of forums - applying epoxy glue as a top coat if frustratingly difficult & not necessary when you can use other water proof finishes like two component polyurethane varnish?
International Perfection 2-pack Varnish 750ml | sailboats.co.uk
However please let us know if you can find out anymore about finishing wooden guns with epoxy

 

[pvilela]

this was finished with 4 layers epoxy SP 105 or 115 i don´t remenber well and layer poliurethane vernish, , total 8 coats, last coat was a mate vernish.

 

[Den]

I haven't made my own gun yet but the time will come. I do however make wooden surfboards and work on boats etc.
West systems epoxy makes a good protective coating for wood exposed to seawater. The key, as someone mentioned above is to follow the manufacturers instructions.
Don't sand finer than 120grit. First get your workshop to at least 20 deg C. If youre in UK (where the humidity is often high) go a bit hotter. Mix carefully to keep bubbles to a mininmum. brush the first coat on fairly thick, you'll get little lumps and bumps, carefully overbrush to keep these to a minimum.
Leave a day or two then sand right back with 80grit, go over with 120grit. Brush on next coat then put third coat straight over without sanding after a couple of hours. Leave at least three days, epoxy resins continue to harden for weeks after curing.
Sand through the grades to 180grit Then finish with 1 or 2 coats of a 2 pack polyurethane varnish with UV filters to stop fading and give you that deep shine without having to polish.
There's nothing wrong with 8 coats of 2pack, it makes a great job, but I find this method less work.
Keep everything clean, hoover up any dust and wash and dry job before aplying next coat, To coat a gun I'd hang it up vertically, take care, you've got plenty of time. Have fun.

 

[pvilela]

DEN
Great explanation

so you use advice a 3 + 2 layers
less work for shure
i am going to try to use a other brand then SP,
anyone knows resoltech ?
in this case for lamination i will use 1070S clear
tks in advance

 

[foxfish]

OK here is a different approach to applying epoxy coatings -
I have mixed the epoxy with micro balloon powder to thicken & colour the clear epoxy. I have applied 6 coats, mixing red & black pigments into the mix.
Buy alternating the colours I hope when I finally sand & polish the cured epoxy coating it will leave an interesting & very shiny finish - I will post the result in a few days.

 

[pvilela]

i am curious to see the final result of this "diferent shape" . It looks great

 

[foxfish]

You can see how I built the gun here http://forums.deeperblue.com/diy-homemade/75393-look-what-i-have-got.html

 

[Den]

There are lots of different techniques for getting a good finish, i've just given what is pretty much manufacturers minimum recommendations. you might want more coats to ensure a deep and even coverage for something prone to knocks or with sharp edges. Foxfish's finishes sound like they'll last for years!. Playing with pigments is great fun, swirls, spatters, etc....I think it's time I shut up made a gun...

 

[foxfish]

Hey Den, it might be fun but it is also time consuming & hard work, I must of put 20 hours into this so far -

 

[jtkwest]

Hey Den, it might be fun but it is also time consuming & hard work, I must of put 20 hours into this so far -

hey, fox. whats up? i want to put a hard finish on a couple guns to check it out. can i use 2 pack over teak oil? or tung oil? or stain? what about paint? i want to camo a couple and put 2 pack on it . waht is the best way? i think someone said ,(maybe you) that i should put thin epoxy layer, then paint with oil hobby paint, then 2 pack. is that right? anyone know this?