EQEX vs AIDA

[Billextreme]

AIDA is only allowing the EQEX in the No Limit discipline.

And for those who still wonder how the EQEX works:

The bottle has big holes in the bottom and is filled with water to 100% when Herbert leaves the surface. Then he stop the sled at around 20 meter to blow out ALL air he has into the bottle, he empty his lungs totally and make the rest of the dive with no air in the lungs. During the rest of his descend, Herbert then slowly, taking the air back in his mouth to equalize his ear in deeper water. This because he don't want to "fight" with his lungs when he have the blod shift, and also because to make sure to not trap any air in his lungs and not be able to use it for his equalization. This way of making the dive protects Herbert from DCS/DCI up to a certain level - but of course not completely. This way of diving will also give him a much stronger dive reflex and faster blood shift.

Brilliant with other words

/B

ps. The EQEX or any other kind of "re-breathing" system/apparatus is not allowed in any of AIDA's other 7 disciplines.

Copyright © ApneaMania

 

[Sergiu]

that's what we need in the sport, creative minds to keep everybody safes the deeper we go.


somewhat unrelated, it's a pitty a particular Cola brand gets quite a bit of advertising, while as a company there is still a long way to go in cleaning up its act on PET waste one can see floating on every body of water.

 

[pehtran]

yes, brilliant!
so this way of equilisation can only be performed with cocacola bottle.
so he blows ALL the air into the bottle?!... fascinating.... he is actualy performing an empty lung dive.... this way obviously there is really no limit to the deapth if I understand corectly.... if he can go to 200m with empty lungs he can just as easaly go much deeper since lungs can not colapse much more anyway.
All respect, Herbert! I do not see any dilema in what you are doing!

 

[er453r]

"bottle has big holes in the bottom" and "blow(s) out ALL air he has into the bottle"

so how come the air doesn't escape from the bottle? :hmm

 

[MIG]

Don't forget that the actual EqEx used in the 214m dive is going to be on Ebay later today.. signed by Herbert Himself!!!!!!

MIG

 

[jome]

Look at it this way. Athletes have now a much better position to negotiate sponsors, something concrete to sell Ie, which cola brand gets to be the center part of the worlds deepest dive.

In this case, Coca Cola in understandable, if you consider the sponsors...

The worlds deepest breath hold dive. Brought to you (literally) by: Coca Cola.

Is there better visibility for sponsors?

I predict we'll see some "gray area" in betweens soon. Basically, a large enough mask that can collapse all the way would serve nicely as a smaller "EQEX". Currently the rules allow for "custom" equipment, such as pipe masks. How big in volume can the tube be?

 

[BennyB]

I think the EQEX bottle stays vertical so no air should leak out.

So a bit of rough maths.... that bottle looks like it's a 1.125L size. Herbert's lung capacity with packing would be up around the 10L mark i'd guess, maybe more maybe less. At 20m this would be about 1/3 of the volume so about 3.3L, of which he blows a bit over a litre into the EQEX, leaving him a bit over 2L in his lungs. About 1L of this can't be extracted because of diaphragm flexibility, which leaves a possible 1L of air in his lungs that could be used for further equalisation?

And then he then does a 4 minute "active" static....

But Bill mentions that he blows out all the air and totally empties his lungs so i'm missing something here.

Is this right or am I simplifying too much? On ascent does he get the equalised air back into the lungs? Does it go back into the EQEX then breathed in or does it go straight into the lungs?

It's a brilliant piece of equipment, and once again, respect to Herbert!

 

[Jorg]

AIDA is only allowing the EQEX in the No Limit discipline.

So why is it only allowed in no limts and not also in variable? Also a sled discipline with great depths ...

 

[CEngelbrecht]

Arbitrary decision on the spot, probably. It's a new concept. I'm not sure that eqex fulfills my personal freediving philosophy, so I personally agree with not allowing it in VWT either. No Limits on the other hand has no limits, so offhand I can accept it here. As long as it is his own breath all the way, I guess it fulfills the idea of apnea.

Empty lungs to the max depth, huh? Resembles dolphins more and more, I guess Murat was right...

 

[Daić]

Just thinking. I assume that Herbert has VC 9L with full packing. From equation:
P1*V1 = P2*V2 à V2 = (P1*V2)/P2

V1 = 9L
P1 = 1 bar
at 20m:
P2 (20m) = 3 bar
V2 = 3L

at 30m:
P2 (30m) = 4bar
V2 = 2.25L

at 40m:
P2(40m) = 5 bar
V2 = 1.8 L

CocaCola bottle with holes has les then 2 L volume. So why does he stop at 20m and not 40m? Maybe he doesn’t blow all the air out or he has smaller vital lunge capacity?

I think theses innovations are god development for the sport! And I wish safe dives for Herbert.

Jure

 

[trux]

Is this right or am I simplifying too much? On ascent does he get the equalised air back into the lungs? Does it go back into the EQEX then breathed in or does it go straight into the lungs?

I think he may be filling the bottle little bit deeper (I think I saw 30m previously) or continues to descent slowly during the filling anyway And possibly he goes on filling it even after the short stop or slow down at 20m or 30m. And the residual volume can be well above 1l. On the other hand, blood shift may already start kicking in (though more likely not yet). Anyway there will be certainly some small amount of air remaining in the lungs, but it is not that important.

 

[Billextreme]

Haha..

If you think it's only to fix a bottle and dive... think again.

It is NOT easy to learn how to use this EQEX in the perfect way. Blow out air is not the same for everyone - and this is something that you have to discover yourself.
Does Herbert blow out all air like in FRC or is it reverse-packing? Could it be something in between plus filling up his big mouth as well - or a combo of everything incl blowing out little extra just when he let go of the break?

The bottle is 1.5 litres and his mouth almost the same ;-)

Have a nice day

/B

ps. AIDA would like to keep VWT clean from extra stuff and tools – it’s more than enough to have one “wild” discipline.
It’s easier to reach greater depth with the EQEX but harder to pull your self up in VWT, so it’s more wise to only allow it in NLT where you have help coming up.

 

[Herbert]

Sometimes I do stretch my lungs for deepdiving, but I want to do that at least one hour before.
During warm-up, I try to get as much blood-shift as possible.

My vital capacity is 7,2l
Residual is 2,8l (I know this is huge)
Packing is up to 5l

The 1.5l coca cola bottle was very full at around 25m.
I used reverse packing for the last bit.
I assume that my lung volume is reduced by the blood-shift which I have from my warm-up.

Plus I think people forget it their calculation that the air remaining in the lungs at 25m is also compressed, so my residual volume of 2,8l at 25m equals 9,8 l. For this reason I always had big problems equalizing.

My estimations:

~12 l (total lung volume + packing – blood-shift) = 3.4 l at 25m
1.3 l are blown in the coca cola bottle
Leaving 2.1 l in my lungs
(some air was also used up for equalizing before reaching 25m)

 

[sebastien murat]

Firstly, congratulations to you Herbert.


On an other note, some have said its like an E-dive (i.e., FRC).....

its not the same actually, for several reasons:

- ~ 2.1 L of gas volume in the lungs @ 3.5 ATA = 7.4 L of gas volume at the surface => x 3.5 E-diving volume

- E-diving volume at 25 m = ~ 0.5-0.6 L

- From the surface to 25 m there is minimal blood-shift with packing dive because lung pressure is positive....the pressure can readily be cushioned

- From the surface to 25 m on an E-dive there must be a fast blood shift since the pressure becomes rapidly -ve

- From 25 m to whatever the pressure gradient become shallower => plenty of time to move blood centrally despite elevated speeds on an F-dive

- From surface to 25 m on an F-dive (especially a packing dive) the steep pressure gardient ensures that N2 uptake is really high, especially considering that the dive response will not be as accentuated as an E-dive....so blowing out into a bottle is better than blowing in the mouth but the risk of DCS is still there and quite high actually.

- Equalizing with water would accentuate the dive response and limit N2 uptake.

The ascent is also an issue.

Its a shame you have problems equalizing without Coke, you would have made an ideal subject on the upcoming freediving science doco

Congrats again
S

 

[efattah]

When I did my 82m WR in 2001, I used a natural 'EQEX'; my cheeks. At 30m, I did a large mouthfill of 600ml into my throat & cheeks, which completely emptied my lungs at that depth. So, from 30m to the bottom, I had 'empty' lungs.

All the EQEX does is allow for a bigger mouthfill. For some people who have smaller mouth/cheeks, all the EQEX does is allow them to get a mouthfill which is the same size as some people can get without the EQEX.

As far as DCS, I don't think any mouthfill/EQEX has much effect on DCS. I got DCS several times while descending with 'empty' lungs after 30m, and even empty lungs from 13m.

 

[Billextreme]

There TWO big benefit's from the EQEX. The first one is that you could get more air in to a bottle than in a normal mouthfill.

But the secound one is actually a bigger benefit.

/B

 

[sebastien murat]

Eric,

The danger zone, I think, is, let say for arguments sake, the first 30m: large ambient/tissue pressure difference and a not fully developed DR. If descent speed is fast (e.g., swimming or weight-assisted) and the DR is weak you may increase your risk of DCS. Is your DR still crap? Were you swimming to overcome buoyancy (cold water diving)? Isn't the risk of DCS higher after any previous/multiple incident, wahtever their origin (e.g. DCS on fulls)?

S

 

[sebastien murat]

Bill,

Patrick did his 209 dive without packing, at modest lung volume, so he told me, and without mouth-fill. By the time he reached Herbert's depth, where Herbert fills his bottle, his lungs where about the same as Herbert's, but water equalization permitted him to develop a much more accentuated DR, which itself is an important factor in reducing N2 uptake. As an example, wet equalization in my case drops my HR from low 30s to low 20s over depths as shallw as 5m, and that's not with full flooding either; at full flooding the difference is another 10 bpm. That aside, Herbert's deco phase was more controlled and therefore safer than Patrick's, however.

My two bits worth
S

 

[efattah]

Recently I started diving with no nose clip (pinching my nose on the descent, then unpinching during the bottom time and ascent). My dive times increased instantly and quite dramatically... that's why I did my most recent competition without a nose clip. I do this now on most of my recreational dives as well. I have the advantage that the water in Vancouver is the same salinity as tears, meaning no discomfort from opening the eyes or flooding the sinuses in the water.

 

[ADR]

Don't forget that the actual EqEx used in the 214m dive is going to be on Ebay later today.. signed by Herbert Himself!!!!!!

MIG

Did I miss this as I really really really want it and can't find it on ebay?