equalization barrier?

[retaw]

Hello everyone

I would appreciate any tips on my equalization issue. i'm planning on taking a free diving course in 2 months and would not like it to be a failure.

I've been doing apnea for about 2 years, almost every time in the pool.
My PB in static is 5'7'', 65 DNF, 102 DYN which is actually not too bad for a beginner.
But my issue is equalization. the deepest i could go is 20m and that is slowly down the rope in a 20m deep pool with really warm water. I equalized (Valsalva) at least for 10 sec every 2 meters! i could reach these 20m only may be 4 times after multiple attempts through many diving sessions.

and it's even worse in the open water: I've had so far about 10 diving days in the sea with a mono fin but could never got over 10-12 meters. really frustrating as i still had plenty of air and had to swim underwater at this depth. my equipment is alright,i have a good monofin and a Minima mask.

some of my friends suggested it was purely psychological but I feel I could manage my stress and get relaxed, and i'm really willing to go deeper!

So my questions are:

could it be physical or psychological? should i may be look for some medical advice and what kind of check-up do i need?

i've read that some people simply cannot go over certain depths... or is there anything i can do to improve my equalization?

thank you so much for any advice or sharing your experience on that .

 

[mermaidgirl]

it sounds like you may be tensing up. the easiest way to fix the problem is to descend on a rope feet first. With the head up it is much easier to equalize. Go very slowly ,then stop equalize, then continue. This has worked for me and has helped several of my friends who have had this problem
Good luck.

 

[azapa]

Valsalva will typically fail around 12m.

Freznel will take you much deeper, to residual volume (about 30 to 35m) alone without any other trickery.

You can probably do Frenzel now, but in the confusion and frustration at depth you are switching back and forth between styles.

Use the search function here to see more about Frenzel, there are also some great tutorials and even a cool video on internet (doctor edmund kay I think)

good luck with the course, your starting figures certainly are great!

 

[retaw]

yep, that what i was actually doing 'feet first-head up' to get to 20m, so it really works this way. if I pass 8-10 m then the things go smoother! still have to find out how to do that on a normal dive head down after 10 m feels so much different....

 

[Unclejake]

Retaw,
You haven't said if it is one ear or both that gives to trouble so I will assume it is both.

Some say that dairy products (of any kind) within 24 hours of a dive are bad. They don't bother me, but perhaps give them a miss for a day or so to see if it makes any difference.

You could also consider a nasal spray that helps open up your tubes. There are a few different ones available over the counter. Drixine(sp?) is a popular one.

 

[mermaidgirl]

yep, that what i was actually doing 'feet first-head up' to get to 20m, so it really works this way. if I pass 8-10 m then the things go smoother! still have to find out how to do that on a normal dive head down after 10 m feels so much different....

Are you keeping your chin tucked in and not looking down? If you look down anticipating the goal you will have trouble equalizing. and STAY RELAXED

 

[Bill]

Let me suggest that you take a course as soon as possible. You may avoid learning bad habits. You're doing well and any experienced instructor will be able to help in a one-on-one situation.
Let me also add, from personal experience, don't approach a course from that direction. No one should come away from any instruction feeling that they failed. You probably can't show the instructor anything s/he hasn't already seen and you may not teach them much but you can learn a lot, even if it's only what not to do. One of the most productive courses I ever took was when I couldn't get wet (doctor's orders). I reviewed the fresh classroom work while enviously watching the others in the water.

 

[retaw]

hello azapa
never heard that valsalva could fail after 10m, thanks a lot, that may the clue!
watched the doctor Edmund Kay video :
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw9UNcp9lxM]YouTube - The Diver's Ear - Under Pressure, part 1-6[/ame]
it's really interesting and helpful, explains everything so clearly.
i will keep that updated after my course.

 

[retaw]

Are you keeping your chin tucked in and not looking down? If you look down anticipating the goal you will have trouble equalizing. and STAY RELAXED

thanks a lot, never really been told about that:head. that true, my main posture is looking further down...

 

[retaw]

Retaw,
You haven't said if it is one ear or both that gives to trouble so I will assume it is both.

Some say that dairy products (of any kind) within 24 hours of a dive are bad. They don't bother me, but perhaps give them a miss for a day or so to see if it makes any difference.

You could also consider a nasal spray that helps open up your tubes. There are a few different ones available over the counter. Drixine(sp?) is a popular one.

it's actually never the same ear and I think it's good news:t i've been thinking about adjusting my diet as dairy products are not as good for adults as they are for kinds, it makes us produce more secretions.
i suppose a combination of right diet, good preparation work, hygiene and some mild medication could help a lot. I have also seen this information on how to wash your sinuses with salty water but kind of reluctant to try

 

[Unclejake]

A sinus wash is not as uncomfortable as you might imagine, but it sounds like you have a few options to try first.

I am one of the lucky ones and can normally get from the surface to about 5-6 meters before my first equalisation, but when my ears do go bad it is incredibly frustrating.

Best wishes for a fast resolution Retaw

 

[azapa]

you will see the full video in the middle of this page:
Doc's Diving Medicine Home Page

 

[Simos]

Retaw as someone that has had a tough time with equalising i can tell you that your problem is almost certainly due to tensing. In my opinion there is absolutely no reason to see a doctor - whenever I helped with teaching complete beginners, probably half if not more have equalisation issues, even those who are scuba diving instructors.. It just takes time and constant work for equalisation for some of us but definitely those who have some medical issues are VERY few... If you've been to 20m, even the way you describe, you almost certainly don't have any medical problem. Very often, the more you worry about equalisation the bigger an issue it becomes, don't let it worry you too much. If you are having trouble try diving head at an angle less than vertical and do experiment with different jaw/facial movements to find out what works.. Good luck!
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[retaw]

Retaw as someone that has had a tough time with equalising i can tell you that your problem is almost certainly due to tensing. In my opinion there is absolutely no reason to see a doctor - whenever I helped with teaching complete beginners, probably half if not more have equalisation issues, even those who are scuba diving instructors.. It just takes time and constant work for equalisation for some of us but definitely those who have some medical issues are VERY few... If you've been to 20m, even the way you describe, you almost certainly don't have any medical problem. Very often, the more you worry about equalisation the bigger an issue it becomes, don't let it worry you too much. If you are having trouble try diving head at an angle less than vertical and do experiment with different jaw/facial movements to find out what works.. Good luck!
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thanks a lot for the response i actully realised after all these replies to my post that i was very poorely informed about equalisation.
i rarely have equalization problems when i scuba dive but it's not the same as you can stay much longer on each level in case of you have difficulties equalizing or may be i'm also less worried if had enough air or not when it's happening and thus all goes just smooth.
as you said it takes time and constant work, i should just keep working on it;-) i'll keep everyone updated after my course in March.

 

[retaw]

thank you;-)

 

[Simos]

Equalisation in Freediving is not a straightforward topic and yes, it is a lot harder equalising head down, with no air tank and at a faster descend speed

If you are having trouble equalising in the first 10-12m then it's relaxation/technique to blame since all equalisation methods should work.

One thing to do which makes a big difference is to remember to equalise just before you duck dive and get another equalisation done in the first couple of meters. Also go less aggressive with your duck dives, the rate of descend in the first few meters is important...
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[sai]

Hi everyone!
Yesterday for the first time I had the chance to train deep diving with supervision. (AIDA Deeptank Diver)
At the beginning I felt a clear tension building up in my body when descending and it took a few dives to get a bit more relaxed. Then I hit certain barriers where my Frenzel didn't work anymore. First those barriers were around 12-14m and after lots of dives, I managed to get slightly past 16m. When I try to clear my ears at depth, it felt just like there was no air in my mouth which I could press up with my tongue anymore, even though sometimes I even had my cheeks blown up (not intentionally though). I tried getting some air up from my lungs (with a choking sound), but it didn't seem to help. Maybe someone experienced similar problems at comparable depths and could give me a few tips?

Edit: Oh I forgot, when I stopped at that certain dephts and turned my head up again, I could equalize.:t

 

[maui400]

To me it sound like you're using valsalva. You will probably have to switch (learn) to frenzel.

 

[sai]

My diaphragm, chest or belly isn't moving at all when I equalize and it also works fine on empty lungs. I could only imagine that I'm unintentionally switching to Valsalva at that certain point, not realizing it.

 

[retaw]

I've heard that some people use a combination of Frenzel and Valsalva without noticing it..... i kind of learnt Frenzel, i mean it works fine for me outsite water but at a dive i don't feel that it's powerful enough ( or i just may be not doing it properly), so i skip and use Valsalva that makes it possible do go until 12-14 meters.
One friend of mine who also had this kind of probleme said that he was using Valsalva for a long time at the beginning until he got confident at the depth and his tubular system got used to opening at descent. You also get rid of stress when you use solething you know well. Then, at some point he tried to use Frenzel and it came just naturally. Ok, my point is that it's also a matter of training and the number of dives you've done before. For now i will try to do my best with Valsalva while working on Frenzel from time to time.