Equalization Head down

[Apnea_Addict]

I was just wondering: how many are still here, who go a problem equalizing head down. I am still struck with this.

Comments from some people who have worked that problem out are also very welcome.

thanks
Holger

 

[Adrian]

Holger,
That was the reason that made me find DB. I couldn't equalize deeper than 8 meters with Valsalva until someone on the board told me to try leveling out and equalizing when horizontal. That allowed me to get to 13 meters but it would take a long time to getto the bottom - It was very curvy diving. Frustrated, I learnt the Frenzel from Erics paper and now it's only my failure depth that limits me, I need to practice keeping that last mouthful of air from going back into the lungs!

Adrian

 

[matrixed82]

I had trouble equalizing head down on empty lungs but that was corrected by keeping my chin tucked in. When descending I looked ahead of me and I couldn't keep the air in my mouth.

 

[Apnea_Addict]

Hi Adrian,

I am now also back at learning the Frenzel properly. I found out that I already do it but mixed up with Valsalva somehow.

I found this from the Finland guys:

http://www.freedivingfinland.net/nu...Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=164

And then I also heard that doing it while being horizontally helps - but I manage that okay. If I am not going really straight do I can equalize up to about 20 metres.

But not with the head being really down - that does not even seem to work on dry land.

 

[naiad]

I have made some progress - I can now do the Frenzel on land. I haven't tried it in the pool yet.

It is still difficult. The air sometimes leaks back into my lungs with a squeaking sound, maybe it will get easier if I keep trying? I am definitely doing Frenzel and not Valsalva, as I can do it with empty lungs.

 

[Adrian]

Very nice the Finnish page. Learning to control the epiglottis and the soft palate independently was the trick for me. Freediving really changed after that.

Lucia,
Sometimes I get a squeaky sound in my throat when I do the Frenzel underwater - scares all the fish away

 

[jome]

After writing all that stuff, which still is valid, I think it may be all over complicating things.

Lately I've been telling people this:
-Simply sit down, exhale all your air. All of it
-Take a mouthfull of air (don't inhale, just open mouth, close mouth)
-Equalize

I if you can equalize - congratulations, you're doing the frenzel. If not, play around with the air and see what you can do to make it go in your ears

Once you master this, try it upside down in a pool.

Once you master that - your detph won't be limited by equalization for some time...

The key is to really exhale everything. That way you cannot cheat and do the valsalva...Go easy first, because it feels nasty, but if you manage to equalize, try going lower and lower in the air volume and see if it still works. If it works with completely empty lungs, then you got something. It doubles as a great exercise for how to deal with the feeling of being below you residual volume in deep dives and having to equalize. IMO panicy movements at that moment are significant cause of lung squeezes in divers reaching their "equalization limit". But doing this exercise helps you recognice those feelings and remain calm without actually diving deep.

 

[Apnea_Addict]

Thank you so much, Simo, for sharing all this

It really is great if people who having figured something out are willing to pass it on.

Some are just sitting on it, because they think that they have learnt the hard way so why shouldn´t you also (attitude !).

Holger

 

[trux]

Some are just sitting on it, because they think that they have learnt the hard way so why shouldn´t you also (attitude !).

Although there are certainly such freedivers too, I do not think it is typical case, but rather a very rare extreme. The problem at the majority is not the lapse of will to share the knowledge, but the inability to explain it. They cannot really explain it not because they learned it the hard way, and want you to go through it too, but rather because they learned it somehow intuitively without realizing how, or maybe figured it out after a lot of attempts and failures, but without really realizing what they did wrong and how they finally managed it.

This is true not only in freediving, but also in all other sports (and other activities) - that's why only very exceptionally an excellent sport champion becomes an excellent trainer. It is not because they are not willing to share their skills, but because having the skills is not sufficient for teaching them. You need to have a pedagogic gift, and the ability to observe, rationally analyze, interpret and explain the resulting facts.

 

[SanderP]

A question about the frenzel - I can't seem to figure out how to use my tounge as a piston. I can pretty much equalize with my cheeks already (I belive) but I don't get the piston part. Am I supposed to add the tounge block, then hold the tounge block and at the same time move the back of my tounge (tounge body)?
It's confusing... when I try to use my tounge as a piston It feels like when you pinch your nose and swallow, nothing more. I don't feel any pressure inside my ears at all. Damnit.

 

[Apnea_Addict]

Trux,

yes, that could be more closer to the point - especially with the equalizing. When you start talking about it, many just do it, in order to maybe remember what they are doing. But the thing is here, that you don´t see much from the outside, what is happening. So it´s hard to pick up by looking on.

 

[jome]

SanderP, sounds like you got the right idea. It's hard to explain, but I would not obsess about the tongue so much. At least the Frenzel I do, I don't actually move the tongue that much. The block is the most important. I think the actual pressure buildup is a combination of things, but I move "something" in my whole throat, my adam's apple bobs visibly and I also squeeze with the cheeks I guess. In fact, I don't move the tongue much at all, the movement is very subtle, almost unnoticeable.

So I would suggest just make sure the block is in place and play around with the air in your mouth and try to find what you need to move to get it in there. If you're doing everything else right, my guess would be that once you start playing with the tongue, you unconciously close the soft palate.

 

[Apnea_Addict]

I just got out a hot shower - probably really loose and relaxed.

Then I was able to equalize after an exhalation (standing up, though)

 

[Apnea_Addict]

I will keep on working with the Frenzel.

There is other thing, though: Once I turn upside down - I always seem to have this moment of "internal confusion". It´s feels like loosing control (over the bouyancy - not for real but the feeling is like that) and I feel myself tense up because of that - not godd for equalizing.

Ideas anyone ?

 

[jome]

Using a rope and buoy to control the descent works really well. But you might want to check with the pool staff before lunning those in And when you get a chance to do some open water diving, dedicate some time to doing equalization exercises in this way.

In fact, sometimes it does some wonder to just go to any shallow pond and train empty lung dives and equalization. No temptation to go deep, less psychological stress etc...

 

[Apnea_Addict]

Hi Simo,

sounds good the idea with the pond - we have one with rope and buoy permanently installed. The rope goes down to and one diving bell that was used for training by police divers.

Holger

 

[trux]

... The rope goes down to and one diving bell that was used for training by police divers.

Just a word of caution: be sure to never enter the diving bell if it was not previously "washed" with clean air from a diving bottle or compressor! If not used, the bell captures toxic gases escaping from the pond/lake bottom and can kill you easier than you think. Three guys died in this way in a quarry where I did my scuba exams (though the exams were more 20 years ago, the accident is more recent - some 12 year ago, I think), and in the bell I knew well too. It was a training for novice divers - two of them were sent underwater in a quarry normally used for military and police training. They entered the diving bell and removed their regulators. When the instructor went to join or search them, he found them already dead. He then removed his regulator too - most his buddies suppose he did it voluntarily because he could not bear that the two boys died because he did not instruct them not to go to the bell, or that he did not purge it with clean air beforehand (I do not know if the diving bell visit was planned or not though).

 

[Apnea_Addict]

Hi Trux,

sad story - this can not happen at the place I was talking about, because the diving bell was set up in a way that it has got an opening at the very top. So I order to use it you need to plug that hole and then some air to force the water out. But if the hole is not plugged, no gases are going to accumulate under the bell.

Holger

 

[trux]

sad story - this can not happen at the place I was talking about, because the diving bell was set up in a way that it has got an opening at the very top. So I order to use it you need to plug that hole and then some air to force the water out. But if the hole is not plugged, no gases are going to accumulate under the bell.

Yes, that's the usual way, and it was supposed to be so there, too. However, someone simply did not open the bell after using it, and that's the way it happened. The instructor simply supposed the bell is open as it should be (hence without any air), did not go down to verify it, did not take a bottle to fill or purge it, and did not instruct the novices not to enter the bell, or at least not to remove masks and regulators. Such accident can happen easily with a diving bell if people using it are not fully aware of the seriousness of the risk, and do not double and triple check its security.

 

[oferdegi]

A very simple trick I do on land, just playing around with all this now, is first to equalize standing upright, and then, after I "get it going", to bend over with my head between my legs and try it there - that is sort of upside down, isn't it?

To make it all easier, I try to combine the Frenzel with a BTV - "move my ears" to product this sound in my tubes, and "yawn" too, just when I apply the pressure (I'm trying to develop as gentle an equalizing technique as possible, for the future of my poor ears).

BTW, I accidentally taught myself to yawn at will - I can now go into an endless series of yawns at any time. Other than being useful to get myself sleepy and use whatever sleep I can get whenever I can get it, I don't really know what it's good for. Any ideas?
Ofer