In the first 10 to 15 meters I can't seem to equalize while inverted and have to turn upright, equalize, and then invert again during descent. Once past 15 meters I equalize ok. Does anyone know what is going on and how I can resolve this issue? It's annoying and takes time. Thanks!
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Equalization - upright versus inverted
- Thread starterGomari
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
The only thing that comes to mind is that the change in air volume in your lungs and ears/sinuses is much greater in the 0-15m range than it is after that. From zero to 10m, the air inside you is compressed to roughly half the original volume at the surface. Using Boyle's Law (P1 V1 = P2 V2) you can see that the change in lung volume decreases less and less as you go deeper.
Perhaps you are waiting a bit too long to equalize after each successful equalization? But then when you get deeper, the pressure doesn't build up quite as fast, giving you more time to get in an equalization.
It is possible to overpressurize your ears so they won't equalize at all. That used to happen to me.
How do you equalize?
Pete
Perhaps you are waiting a bit too long to equalize after each successful equalization? But then when you get deeper, the pressure doesn't build up quite as fast, giving you more time to get in an equalization.
It is possible to overpressurize your ears so they won't equalize at all. That used to happen to me.
How do you equalize?
Pete
Would say a bit more about this. I have a similar problem to Gomari. I pinch my nose and blow to equalise.laminar said:
Thanks for the replies. I equalise the same way as Andrew. I pinch and blow when the pressure becomes uncomfortable. I just have to turn upright during the first 10 to 15m to equalise. No problem equalising, but it's annoying to have to right myself, equalise, and then invert again. Once below 15m I can remain inverted.
Pete, now that you mention it, I think I might be going a bit slowly in the first part of the dive. But I'm not sure how that becomes a factor while inverted versus upright. Perhaps I need to brush up on my A&P 101, LOL.
Thanks again for any help.
Pete, now that you mention it, I think I might be going a bit slowly in the first part of the dive. But I'm not sure how that becomes a factor while inverted versus upright. Perhaps I need to brush up on my A&P 101, LOL.
Thanks again for any help.
I suspect you two are actually under-equalizing. when you feel the negative pressure it is because it already pulls your eardrum, but the e-tubes have soft walls and they can get shut before you feel the pressure. I'd say, try keeping your hand on your nose and try equalizing twice per second. See if that works, if it does then I guess you found your problem and now you need to find a pace that works for you.Gomari said:
Add an equalization on the surface just before the duckdive. You can even add an equalization in the middle of your duckdive (might require practice). I've found that if I go as deep as I can on a duckdive on some days I can't eve get the first equalization.
Also, it sounds like you're using the Valsalva to equalize (pinch and blow). Try learning the Frenzel (pinch and tongue piston), it is usually more efficient.
Good point, Gomari - I'll have a read of them too.
DeepThought - I think I will have to be patient! I have only been diving 3 times, the latter two to 16 and 15 metres. Now that it is winter here I don't fancy going in very cold water so will have to wait for the Spring. But I think that I need lots of getting in the water and practice. When I did my AIDA** to 16 metres I did many dives over 2 days and found on my final dive that my ears felt fine at 16 metres and could have gone several metres deeper. But as I am a beginner I forget between sessions what I did.
DeepThought - I think I will have to be patient! I have only been diving 3 times, the latter two to 16 and 15 metres. Now that it is winter here I don't fancy going in very cold water so will have to wait for the Spring. But I think that I need lots of getting in the water and practice. When I did my AIDA** to 16 metres I did many dives over 2 days and found on my final dive that my ears felt fine at 16 metres and could have gone several metres deeper. But as I am a beginner I forget between sessions what I did.
Hi Gomari,
I am surely not an expert and probably this is arriving one week too late, but just in case it could help, I think Eric Fattah wrote a nice document about the frenzel technique (and his own improved version: useful anyway when you dive below 35.. or you do FRV or FRC) that you could download from Liquivision F1 and Fluid Goggles Home I red it and found very useful.. after a while you feel you can master rather well many parts of your throat that you did not even know you had..
well you probably already know how to, but just in case.. if you don't, be careful with packing... I nearly blowed me up.. =:-0
I am surely not an expert and probably this is arriving one week too late, but just in case it could help, I think Eric Fattah wrote a nice document about the frenzel technique (and his own improved version: useful anyway when you dive below 35.. or you do FRV or FRC) that you could download from Liquivision F1 and Fluid Goggles Home I red it and found very useful.. after a while you feel you can master rather well many parts of your throat that you did not even know you had..
well you probably already know how to, but just in case.. if you don't, be careful with packing... I nearly blowed me up.. =:-0
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Hi everybody,
a little update. Following the suggestions efattah but especially of the finnish guys The Frenzel Technique :: FDTF :: Freediving Team of Finland
I tried few free pool immersions with passive exale head up and head down. As many say you don't need to go to -30m to test how good your equalization technique is: with passive exale you have the same problems ready at -4 (-5) m. Thinking I could master frenzel rather well, I handled quite easily head up, but when I tried head down.. no way.. perfectly perpendicular, with my head touching the bottom, I din't even know what I was doing.. pushing, pulling, suching, frenzel, valsalva.. just pain in the ears.. damn it, up again Matteo!
Theory was all right, but practice.. another thing. BUT today I tried again and being just a little more focused on what was happening inside my troath I finally managed.. A "perfect" eustachian tubes opening and subsequent frenzel with toungue push: I am very happy. Now it is just a matter of exercise till I will pefectly master all the movements, and will be ready to open seas.. (well more or less ).
Ciao, Matteo.
a little update. Following the suggestions efattah but especially of the finnish guys The Frenzel Technique :: FDTF :: Freediving Team of Finland
I tried few free pool immersions with passive exale head up and head down. As many say you don't need to go to -30m to test how good your equalization technique is: with passive exale you have the same problems ready at -4 (-5) m. Thinking I could master frenzel rather well, I handled quite easily head up, but when I tried head down.. no way.. perfectly perpendicular, with my head touching the bottom, I din't even know what I was doing.. pushing, pulling, suching, frenzel, valsalva.. just pain in the ears.. damn it, up again Matteo!
Theory was all right, but practice.. another thing. BUT today I tried again and being just a little more focused on what was happening inside my troath I finally managed.. A "perfect" eustachian tubes opening and subsequent frenzel with toungue push: I am very happy. Now it is just a matter of exercise till I will pefectly master all the movements, and will be ready to open seas.. (well more or less
). Ciao, Matteo.
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WOW!, great download. I am a total newb to freediving but I have been doing alot of reading here, I just downloaded and applied the article and learned it in less than 10 minutes.....thaks for that.
Dear Spea Feesha,
now that you took a look to "things to do" do not forget to get a even a closer look to "things NOT to do". I am talking about safety and following a smooth improvement curve. I have been warned myself too, and despite you probaly know already a lot (like I also thought of myself), it is better to know more than less considering that a mistake can cost too much sometimes. There are plenty of good threads here: among my favorites you find http://forums.deeperblue.net/safety/66420-my-shallow-water-blackout-nightmare.html
and http://forums.deeperblue.net/safety/66867-new-theory-about-risk-freediving-dcs-airtrapping.html
Ciaociao,
Matteo.
now that you took a look to "things to do" do not forget to get a even a closer look to "things NOT to do". I am talking about safety and following a smooth improvement curve. I have been warned myself too, and despite you probaly know already a lot (like I also thought of myself), it is better to know more than less considering that a mistake can cost too much sometimes. There are plenty of good threads here: among my favorites you find http://forums.deeperblue.net/safety/66420-my-shallow-water-blackout-nightmare.html
and http://forums.deeperblue.net/safety/66867-new-theory-about-risk-freediving-dcs-airtrapping.html
Ciaociao,
Matteo.
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thanks for the links Matte, I have alot more reading to do. I like the frenzel as it's really easy to apply and I can adjust the amount pressure needed but I am still afraid to try it in the water. I've been practicing it and 90% of the time I have felt dizziness.
hi Spea,
I have actually no idea why this happens to you. Well I have an idea, but I am not sure.. I just can guess, so don't believe it 100%.
If I equalize not exposed to pressure, then my eardrums are pushed to the outside (overequalizing) and this, especially if prolonged in time, have an impact on your equlibrium center (or in english balance center maybe) located just behind the eardrum (as you certanly know) , and this could imply dizzines.
If you equalize in water (or better underwater) your eardrum is not (shouldn't be) stretched at all and you should not have any problem of dizziness.
BUT as everyone would reccomend, find a buddy or better an experienced group to dive with and try it, no worries. If you are alone then is another story.
Personally I was born in Genova and I used to dive as a kid in the same waters where pionieers such Dulio Marcante, Egidio Cressi, Dario Gonzatti, Ludovico Mares, Luigi Ferraro, made the history of diving. Not that i "absorbed" their incredible experience while in the water, but exposed to the same environment I got what people call the acquaticity (meaning the confidence with water which is not related to swimming for example) as nearly every kid of my riviera gets.
I recently (unfortunately) realized that when you are not a kid anymore, then it is not the same and your preservation insticnt is less active allowing to expose yourself to riscs that could be to hard to handle. But thank God when you are older you have more patience and spending some time in reading you will KNOW what not to do and not just FEEL it as you did when you were a kid. Well this is again another theory of mine, so.. :-/
Contact some diver from your place, meet them, and just try it.. it is not a big deal after all.. if diving was not fun, nobody would do it at all, don't you think?
ciao,
Matteo.
I have actually no idea why this happens to you. Well I have an idea, but I am not sure.. I just can guess, so don't believe it 100%.
If I equalize not exposed to pressure, then my eardrums are pushed to the outside (overequalizing) and this, especially if prolonged in time, have an impact on your equlibrium center (or in english balance center maybe) located just behind the eardrum (as you certanly know) , and this could imply dizzines.
If you equalize in water (or better underwater) your eardrum is not (shouldn't be) stretched at all and you should not have any problem of dizziness.
BUT as everyone would reccomend, find a buddy or better an experienced group to dive with and try it, no worries. If you are alone then is another story.
Personally I was born in Genova and I used to dive as a kid in the same waters where pionieers such Dulio Marcante, Egidio Cressi, Dario Gonzatti, Ludovico Mares, Luigi Ferraro, made the history of diving. Not that i "absorbed" their incredible experience while in the water, but exposed to the same environment I got what people call the acquaticity (meaning the confidence with water which is not related to swimming for example) as nearly every kid of my riviera gets.
I recently (unfortunately) realized that when you are not a kid anymore, then it is not the same and your preservation insticnt is less active allowing to expose yourself to riscs that could be to hard to handle. But thank God when you are older you have more patience and spending some time in reading you will KNOW what not to do and not just FEEL it as you did when you were a kid. Well this is again another theory of mine, so.. :-/
Contact some diver from your place, meet them, and just try it.. it is not a big deal after all.. if diving was not fun, nobody would do it at all, don't you think?
ciao,
Matteo.
thanks, that makes plenty of sense, went out today and tried to do it but it was difficult due to the complications of getting a grip on my nose while wearing gloves
Gloves? wow, I guess you were diving in cold waters.. Brrrr.. Here we have plenty of cold water, but not for me.. I train in pool. About gettin a grip you can use a noseclip as many does (me included). A diving noseclip is stronger that a swim noseclip in order to allow you to equalize, but then you have to wear goggles and this imply that you have to equalize them as well... Damnit.. never ends..
Take a look to http://forums.deeperblue.net/freediving-equipment/69409-paradisia-other-nose-clips.html and http://forums.deeperblue.net/freediving-equipment/49423-nose-clip.html?highlight=pipe+mask
for the noseclip and to http://forums.deeperblue.net/freediving-equipment/66790-pipe-mask.html?highlight=pipe+mask and http://forums.deeperblue.net/freediving-equipment/64825-curiosity.html?highlight=pipe+mask for the pipemask
Still the best are the liquid googles Liquivision F1 and Fluid Goggles Home but are rather expensive.. ok little complicated, but if you don't go deep then you can still try with normal googles.. depending on which model, it is "safe" surely up till -3 meter.. ciao, Matteo.
About gettin a grip you can use a noseclip as many does (me included). A diving noseclip is stronger that a swim noseclip in order to allow you to equalize, but then you have to wear goggles and this imply that you have to equalize them as well... Damnit.. never ends.. Take a look to http://forums.deeperblue.net/freediving-equipment/69409-paradisia-other-nose-clips.html and http://forums.deeperblue.net/freediving-equipment/49423-nose-clip.html?highlight=pipe+mask
for the noseclip and to http://forums.deeperblue.net/freediving-equipment/66790-pipe-mask.html?highlight=pipe+mask and http://forums.deeperblue.net/freediving-equipment/64825-curiosity.html?highlight=pipe+mask for the pipemask
Still the best are the liquid googles Liquivision F1 and Fluid Goggles Home but are rather expensive.. ok little complicated, but if you don't go deep then you can still try with normal googles.. depending on which model, it is "safe" surely up till -3 meter.. ciao, Matteo.
thanks, that makes plenty of sense, went out today and tried to do it but it was difficult due to the complications of getting a grip on my nose while wearing gloves
Best thing I have learnt (not much, just freediving this summer) is NOT to pinch the nose, but press up from bellow lightly, blocking the mask against the two nostrils. No probs with gloves (11 Celcius water here, IN SUMMER rofl
The other thing that has helped alot is do lots of equalizations before feeling ear pain. I must do one every second until I get down.
I can tell (I think) it works becuase at the surface my ears "squeek" as the de-equalize.. Does all this sound like crap?