• Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:

    • Join over 44,280+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
    • Participate in and browse from over 516,210+ posts.
    • Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
    • Post your own photos or view from 7,441+ user submitted images.
    • All this and much more...

    You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

Ermes-Sub "Avatar" handle with latest version of Double Roller trigger mechanism

popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
4,566
1,308
353
Ermes-Sub have now released parts for their "Avatar" eurogun, the main interest being the new handle which is built around a refined version of their Double Roller trigger mechanism. Here are some photos of it, this one has white trim for the soft grip handle and butt pad, and there are other options in green and red, being the Italian national colours. There is also a two band muzzle available, but no sign yet of the intended barrel, although the handle can be used with other barrels of 26 mm and 26.5 mm internal diameter as the barrel sealing "O" ring has two alternate positions on the front boss.

The handle has a switchable safety lever which seems to be intended as a lock-out when rigging and banding up your gun rather than being used as a safety, hence rather than “S” for safe it is marked as “L” when the trigger is trapped at the top and the gun cannot release. A set of diagrams shows how it works.
Ermes Sub Avatar 1R

Ermes Sub Avatar 2R

Ermes Sub Avatar 3R

Ermes Sub Avatar 4R

Ermes Sub Avatar 5R

Ermes Sub Avatar 6R

Ermes SUb Avatar 7R

Ermes Sub Avatar trigger lock out RR

Note in this last photo you can see a window cut in the sidewall of the metal housing to reduce its weight, this window appears black and is just visible in the sear box mouth area now that the sear lever nose has dropped with the trigger being pulled. The sear lever has no biasing spring, it falls under the action of gravity or the force of the spear being propelled from the gun by the action of the bands retracting from their stretched state.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. X
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
4,566
1,308
353
Surprised that "made in Italy" does not appear anywhere on the plastic handle.
Ermes Sub handle for DR trigger mechanism
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. X
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
4,566
1,308
353
Here is what the handle looks like with the 3 position adaptor removed.
Avatar with camera support insert removed R

And the camera adaptor base from 3 different views. Note the holes which are engaged by a grub screw
Avatar insert for camera support R
 
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
4,566
1,308
353
The thumb rest removed shows both sides of the grip are identical. It is held on with one screw and two lugs press into the recesses in the white grip handle.
Ermes Sub Avatatar LHS no thumb rest R

Thumb rest R
 
  • Like
Reactions: musubi
M

musubi

Active Member
Feb 9, 2017
125
66
43
39
Hey Pete, I wanted to get your thoughts on something. When I use the MVD Zeso handle (https://www.mvd-retail.gr/product-page/zeso-handle) on my invert/demultiplied setup, I load two sets of bands on that underside hook. Each set I load underneath has close to 90 lbs of tension by the time I load it on the hook. I also use 1.9 mm of UHMWPE as my wishbones.

Do you think that underside hook on the Ermes Avatar handle can support my two sets of bands?
 
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
4,566
1,308
353
Hey Pete, I wanted to get your thoughts on something. When I use the MVD Zeso handle (https://www.mvd-retail.gr/product-page/zeso-handle) on my invert/demultiplied setup, I load two sets of bands on that underside hook. Each set I load underneath has close to 90 lbs of tension by the time I load it on the hook. I also use 1.9 mm of UHMWPE as my wishbones.

Do you think that underside hook on the Ermes Avatar handle can support my two sets of bands?
Well I am not sure, there is very little material there and the “Avatar” handle has the hook right at the very bottom rather than being up behind the front barrel locating boss. Check the difference in these photos. The hook is obviously there for that purpose, but whether it can take two bands is problematic.
Handle comparison avatar huntmaster R

Ermes Sub Avatar lower hook
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: musubi
M

musubi

Active Member
Feb 9, 2017
125
66
43
39
Well I am not sure, there is very little material there and the “Avatar” handle has the hook right at the very bottom rather than being up behind the front barrel locating boss. Check the difference in these photos. The hook is obviously there for that purpose, but whether it can take two bands is problematic.View attachment 58128
View attachment 58129
Thanks Pete. Appreciate the closeup picture of the Avatar underside hook and the side-by-side picture comparison. Based on that, I'm not convinced this would hold my setup. I think it's best suited for single load applications, which I'm sure that's what it's initially intended for. I'll stick with my MVD/Huntmaster handle. I installed the Ermes double roller trigger mech in mine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. X
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
4,566
1,308
353
Here are a few more photos of the hook.
Ermes Sub Avatar lower hook detail 1R

Ermes Sub Avatar lower hook oblique angle R
 
  • Like
Reactions: musubi
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
4,566
1,308
353
Thanks Pete!
I can see what you mean better about the hook being at the bottom vs behind the barrel.
A consequence of pushing the rear handle high up behind the barrel tube as far as possible which means in effect dropping the barrel engagement boss further down on the handle moulding.
 
M

musubi

Active Member
Feb 9, 2017
125
66
43
39
@popgun pete I could probably fabricate a replacement hook (316SS), shave off the existing hook, and bolt it to the trigger guard, if I was looking to make this handle work. I still wouldn't mind trying out this handle someday, in my next build.
Avatar Hook
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. X
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
4,566
1,308
353
They may change the injection mould if it is found to be inadequate when used with more than one band anchoring there. If it was my product then I would also fill in the hole that the rectangular cross section camera bracket slides in as a plug may fill the hole, but it does not add to the strength as much as if it was solid right through that section. You would not want it to snap there as loading bent the grip upwards as after all that is what stops the gun from shooting with the spear pull transmitted by the metal trigger mechanism housing to the surrounding plastic “monobloc”.
 
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
4,566
1,308
353
A blue version of the grip now joins the existing red, green and white versions. Also a carbon fibre barrel is available in either a cylindrical tube or a rear biased cuttle bone shape, the latter increasing the aft buoyancy to offset the weight of the rear handle.
Avatar blue grip

Avatar stocks
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. X and musubi
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
4,566
1,308
353
An assembled gun with the cuttle barrel and standard Avatar muzzle.
Avatar cuttle barrel green
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. X and musubi
M

musubi

Active Member
Feb 9, 2017
125
66
43
39
A blue version of the grip now joins the existing red, green and white versions. Also a carbon fibre barrel is available in either a cylindrical tube or a rear biased cuttle bone shape, the latter increasing the aft buoyancy to offset the weight of the rear handle.
View attachment 58277
View attachment 58278
Do you know where the cuttle shaped barrel is being sold? I couldn't find it on the Ermes site. Looks awesome. Interested in the lengths they offer.
 
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
4,566
1,308
353
Probably not on sale yet, however some guns have used the Carbontek barrels and fitted the Avatar handle and muzzle. These are built by independent operators prior to the complete Avatar line being available from Ermes-Sub.
 
  • Like
Reactions: musubi
M

musubi

Active Member
Feb 9, 2017
125
66
43
39
Probably not on sale yet, however some guns have used the Carbontek barrels and fitted the Avatar handle and muzzle. These are built by independent operators prior to the complete Avatar line being available from Ermes-Sub.
Thanks Pete for the reply.
A friend of mine brought in the Avatar handle for his new gun build, so I was able to check it out up close. I wasn't a huge fan of the rectangular gap in the center for the camera mount, but the handle seemed rigid enough and with a roller, you have forces pulling from top and bottom. And I wish the bottom hook was deeper or could hold another wishbone.

Another friend just built a double roller using the Avatar handle.
I'd consider it if I end up building a roller one day.

HKlLmo0   Imgur
 
popgun pete

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
4,566
1,308
353
Another photo of the cuttle barrel with the handgrip fitted.
Ermessub CF 6
 
DeeperBlue.com - The Worlds Largest Community Dedicated To Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing

ABOUT US

ISSN 1469-865X | Copyright © 1996 - 2022 deeperblue.net limited.

DeeperBlue.com is the World's Largest Community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving, Spearfishing and Diving Travel.

We've been dedicated to bringing you the freshest news, features and discussions from around the underwater world since 1996.

ADVERT