Spaghetti, you may be right - but we must remain friends.
Ok let's be friends. But get out. :girlie
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Euro Zone Crisis - Europe/Europa
- Thread starterMr. X
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Ok let's be friends. But get out. :girlie
Recipe for real growth: low interest rates (check) + low taxes (oops)
(At least that seems to be the American recipe)
(At least that seems to be the American recipe)
Happily, on both counts
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I'm not gloating though Spago, I feel for the Med. countries (/PIIGS). Can't help wondering if this austerity (called "Plan A" in the UK) is actually helping anything or anyone, or just making things worse now. Judging by the recent French elections, I guess I am not the only one wondering this.
Things do not seem to be improving, so perhaps time for a change? On the upside, the Saudi's announced they are going to increase oil production - there is little demand, so that means lower oil prices which should help (cut fuel/delivery/heating/cooling/energy costs, inflation, etc.). Also, call me a cynic, the UK government are half-way through their term in office, so they should be done with punishing the electorate for voting for the last government, 3x, and they'll be keen/desperate to get things moving for the 18 months leading up to the next election, so they stand a chance of re-election.
Things do not seem to be improving, so perhaps time for a change? On the upside, the Saudi's announced they are going to increase oil production - there is little demand, so that means lower oil prices which should help (cut fuel/delivery/heating/cooling/energy costs, inflation, etc.). Also, call me a cynic, the UK government are half-way through their term in office, so they should be done with punishing the electorate for voting for the last government, 3x, and they'll be keen/desperate to get things moving for the 18 months leading up to the next election, so they stand a chance of re-election.
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As a US citizen who's retirement portfolio isn't earning enough to keep an ant alive, much less retire on (low interest rates) and who thinks his taxes should be high enough to cover things like libraries and paving the streets and especially that much richer folks should pay their fair share(taxes on the very rich are substantially lower than mine), I don't think much of the "american recipe."
Connor
Connor
I could be completely wrong, but this is what the cause of the Euro Crisis looks like to me. Adopting the Euro let the periferal countries like Greece and Ireland borrow at near Germany's interest rate. They borrowed way too much(what do you expect politicians to do?). Germany profited greatly since much of that borrowed money went into imports from Germany and not into the internal growth the peripheral countries really needed. Germans also lent a whole bunch of that money and their banks profited richly. The peripheral countries didn't get the growth needed to pay for all that borrowing (surprise, surprise) and now the bill is due and the people lending the money(including but not limited to the Germans) want much higher interest rates. The periferal countries can't pay, of course, so what to do? The Germans want to put it all on the periferal countries, austerity, austerity. Trouble is, that just makes the problem worse and now Germany itself is starting to feel the heat.
Seems to me the Germans need to exercise some(a whole lot) leadership, support a strong central currency system(which they ain't got now), force some structural economic reforms in peripheral countries, recognize that they(or at least German Banks and businesses) got rich on the backs of the peripheral countries, and come up with the money to save everybodies back sides. That requires the Germans to be generous and all countries to give up quite a lot of sovereignty and get rid of some political sacred cows, like not firing incompetents.
Is avoiding a depression worth the political and emotional cost? Kinda depends on whether you have experienced a depression. I think we will find out.
Seems to me the Germans need to exercise some(a whole lot) leadership, support a strong central currency system(which they ain't got now), force some structural economic reforms in peripheral countries, recognize that they(or at least German Banks and businesses) got rich on the backs of the peripheral countries, and come up with the money to save everybodies back sides. That requires the Germans to be generous and all countries to give up quite a lot of sovereignty and get rid of some political sacred cows, like not firing incompetents.
Is avoiding a depression worth the political and emotional cost? Kinda depends on whether you have experienced a depression. I think we will find out.
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And who is the winner in all this. The ones that lent the money got already some "low" interest while everything is ok. Now they demand high interest to get the money back. The peripheral countries can't pay it so they have to get it from the rest to pay back. So all in all a great win-win for the banks.
Nearly all politicians happily pay to not offend "the markets". So as Kars wrote, it's a scam and as long people don't realize that it's the system that's wrong and not some lazy greeks or whatever things will continue to go down.
Oh and Connor I very much agree with your view on the american recipe.
Nearly all politicians happily pay to not offend "the markets". So as Kars wrote, it's a scam and as long people don't realize that it's the system that's wrong and not some lazy greeks or whatever things will continue to go down.
Oh and Connor I very much agree with your view on the american recipe.
To elaborate on the scum's scam.
It's another Jedi mind control trick, moving your mind in the direction cdavis explained: give up your sovereignty, submit yourself to the EU IMF/World Bank, BIS. It's centralisation of power, herding subjects under their 'new' rulers: IMF/World Bank, BIS. Those institutions are controlled and set up by the same old banking dynasties.
Charles Galton Darwin, a relative of Charles Darwin, in the 1950s, he was a physicist, worked on the Manhattan Project. From his own book - The Next Million Years, "there’s always been slavery in one form or another and we are now in the process of creating a more sophisticated form of slavery."
I'm glad many DB people have the courage to talk about these subjects, as most people avoid such painful revealing subjects.
It's another Jedi mind control trick, moving your mind in the direction cdavis explained: give up your sovereignty, submit yourself to the EU IMF/World Bank, BIS. It's centralisation of power, herding subjects under their 'new' rulers: IMF/World Bank, BIS. Those institutions are controlled and set up by the same old banking dynasties.
Charles Galton Darwin, a relative of Charles Darwin, in the 1950s, he was a physicist, worked on the Manhattan Project. From his own book - The Next Million Years, "there’s always been slavery in one form or another and we are now in the process of creating a more sophisticated form of slavery."
I'm glad many DB people have the courage to talk about these subjects, as most people avoid such painful revealing subjects.
Our politicians allowed themselves to become the puppets of the bankers. They forgot that they are ultimately responsible and the bankers are only interested/responsible for generating profits & bonuses from themselves (unless legally obliged to do otherwise). Now they are left wondering what happened and what to do about it - and I don't think they know how to fix the damage. They know a few things that would help but some are proving difficult to implement (e.g. banking reforms & accountability, allowing banks to fail, taxing the truly wealthy, limiting excessive banker bonuses & executive pay, rewarding failure, tax avoidance, prevent abuse of charities/charitable donations for tax purposes) and others are politically difficult (e.g. raising the retirement age, increasing pension contributions, cutting govt. spending, capping housing benefit, raising bar for disability benefits, managing/reducing population growth).
"Anonymized" tax profiles shown to British Chancellor, showing how millionaires with multi-million pound annual incomes manage to pay 0% tax:
BBC News - The tax return evidence that 'shocked' George Osborne
e.g.
I notice on TV recently that the Chatsworth Estate, home of the Duke of Devonshire, is run as a charitable trust. Wonder if I could run my home, vehicles and related pursuits as a charitable trust?
BBC News - The tax return evidence that 'shocked' George Osborne
e.g.
I notice on TV recently that the Chatsworth Estate, home of the Duke of Devonshire, is run as a charitable trust. Wonder if I could run my home, vehicles and related pursuits as a charitable trust?
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The very rich can afford financial advisers and accountants who advise them to incorporate or set up trusts, charities, etc. It protects their money from taxation. Most people don't even have enough money to squirrel it away like that. It all goes for bills, etc.
Most people agree with taxes paying for roads, public safety, schools, and the like. Politicians are aware of this and they threaten to cut those essential services whenever money starts to get tight. You will never see them cut back on their pet projects, nor will they clear away unnecessary bureaucratic red tape and simplify unnecessarily complicated procedures. There's a lot of waste there, but they would never admit it.
We can always continue to rearrange the same deckchairs. The truth is the more things change the more they stay the same.
Maybe we, or I need to change?
Maybe society is better served with voluntary participation? You know, like you choose your wife, and organise your life, you choosing with whom you deal with, you choosing how you educate YOUR child. I'm sure you can find a good teacher for your child, you know a teacher who you actually know, who you talk to to establish a good and fitting curriculum for your child. Would unisex 1 piece governmind wedsuits be just as good as a tailormade Elios?
- I had to drop a few FD notes in this post
Are we now grown up enough to divorce from our abusive, exploitive, psychopathic, stealing, threading, misleading, lying, murdering scum? Who do these people they think they are? GOD? At least they got a fanatical conviction they're doing GOD's work. My god surely is not in agreement with theirs.
If I had to complain about 1 human design flaw, it would be our hands. They should have been flippers.
Maybe we, or I need to change?
Maybe society is better served with voluntary participation? You know, like you choose your wife, and organise your life, you choosing with whom you deal with, you choosing how you educate YOUR child. I'm sure you can find a good teacher for your child, you know a teacher who you actually know, who you talk to to establish a good and fitting curriculum for your child. Would unisex 1 piece governmind wedsuits be just as good as a tailormade Elios?
- I had to drop a few FD notes in this post
Are we now grown up enough to divorce from our abusive, exploitive, psychopathic, stealing, threading, misleading, lying, murdering scum? Who do these people they think they are? GOD? At least they got a fanatical conviction they're doing GOD's work. My god surely is not in agreement with theirs.
If I had to complain about 1 human design flaw, it would be our hands. They should have been flippers.
Greeks exit Euro!
The frontpage of The Sun this morning:
"Bailout? No boot out.
Greeks exit Euro"
With a picture on Angela Merkel stood up cheering.
Somebody assured me this afternoon that Greece had decided to leave the Euro. I was surprised but relieved, thinking this would mean that things could begin to mend/improve. But it was not to be - the deliberately misleading headline was really about football (AmE soccer)!
Greeks exit Euro... Bailout? No, boot out as Germans win 4-2 | The Sun |News
The frontpage of The Sun this morning:
"Bailout? No boot out.
Greeks exit Euro"
With a picture on Angela Merkel stood up cheering.
Somebody assured me this afternoon that Greece had decided to leave the Euro. I was surprised but relieved, thinking this would mean that things could begin to mend/improve. But it was not to be - the deliberately misleading headline was really about football (AmE soccer)!
Greeks exit Euro... Bailout? No, boot out as Germans win 4-2 | The Sun |News
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Well the ritual tribal warfare has been done, Spain has won the UEFA cup, now they can brace themselves to be plundered, just like the Greeks, Italians and I suspect all nations worldwide. Following inspiring examples from eastern Germany, Russia, Britain, South America and the US, it's 'groundhog day' again. And our owners are going to sap every last bit out of you and your children. Everything must go, including the kitchen sink, the tap and the whole water supply system is going down the drain :hungover.
To illustrate the predictable future, for everyone that loves the certainty of predictability, a group of citizens made the following documentary:
[ame=http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqehlo_catastroika-multilingual_shortfilms]CATASTROIKA - Multilingual - Video Dailymotion[/ame]
Most important to know is their entire operation was only by the people.
I sometimes wonder weather all this slavery and abuse is can ever end. :yack
To illustrate the predictable future, for everyone that loves the certainty of predictability, a group of citizens made the following documentary:
[ame=http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqehlo_catastroika-multilingual_shortfilms]CATASTROIKA - Multilingual - Video Dailymotion[/ame]
Most important to know is their entire operation was only by the people.
I sometimes wonder weather all this slavery and abuse is can ever end. :yack
Im unfortunately not as multilingual as that film,so I lost to much of the point.
The important thing to remember is that some of the conspiracy theory films circulating on the net is made by the same people that they claim to expose.Their true purpose is to intill fear and hopelessnes... There is a great many things we as individuals can do to make a diffrence; take controll of your own destiny as much as you can, make/grow/forage/catch your own food,dont eat G.M.O.By locally produced, prefrably organic food,change your bank to a independent one,yes they exist! If you can avoid it,dont pay taxes,be carefull about borrowing money.And most importantly: Dont give up!
Change will come,more and more people are waking up and starting to realise that the consumer dream is actually a nightmare.
Chose life.
Sjur.
The important thing to remember is that some of the conspiracy theory films circulating on the net is made by the same people that they claim to expose.Their true purpose is to intill fear and hopelessnes... There is a great many things we as individuals can do to make a diffrence; take controll of your own destiny as much as you can, make/grow/forage/catch your own food,dont eat G.M.O.By locally produced, prefrably organic food,change your bank to a independent one,yes they exist! If you can avoid it,dont pay taxes,be carefull about borrowing money.And most importantly: Dont give up!
Change will come,more and more people are waking up and starting to realise that the consumer dream is actually a nightmare.
Chose life.
Sjur.
Unfourtunatly if theres no danger to the guy whos screwing you he has no reason to care what you say. Without a gun to back up your speach you dont have freedom of speach.
Thats not to say that america is much better off, they just use the tactic of very slight and gradual screwing so its easy to continue to say "oh its only a little worse" step after step. Instead of one step to the goal theres 30 but regaurdless its the same final destination.
Id like to think americans would finally stand up in arms on key steps and say no more but unfourtunatly were only human and its happened in history time after time. The key is to talk the americans out of their guns. Once that happens its all down hill from there. Why would they listen to demands of people who cant really do anything? Thats where the occupy wallstreet and all the other protesters in the world fail... They dont believe in guns generally speaking. Those guns are the only reason they can scream at cops and get away with just some pepper spray to the face. Im not saying they deserve that either... But id be scared to see an america with no gun rights...
Thats not to say that america is much better off, they just use the tactic of very slight and gradual screwing so its easy to continue to say "oh its only a little worse" step after step. Instead of one step to the goal theres 30 but regaurdless its the same final destination.
Id like to think americans would finally stand up in arms on key steps and say no more but unfourtunatly were only human and its happened in history time after time. The key is to talk the americans out of their guns. Once that happens its all down hill from there. Why would they listen to demands of people who cant really do anything? Thats where the occupy wallstreet and all the other protesters in the world fail... They dont believe in guns generally speaking. Those guns are the only reason they can scream at cops and get away with just some pepper spray to the face. Im not saying they deserve that either... But id be scared to see an america with no gun rights...
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Re: Euro - Europe
Reminds me of that staggering news story about the US army's air-conditioning bill in Afghanistan each year: $20billion
BBC News - Today - US military's $20bn air con bill
I couldn't help wondering if they'd put the decimal point in the wrong place - even $20million would be an extraordinarily high amount. 20b is hard to believe or comprehend.
I guess "going for a cooling dip" is not a viable alternative (young British soldier kidnapped & killed going for a dip recently
$20 billion on air conditioning! That will be $19.5 billion on blacks ops then and the rest on temperature control!