Ever Apnea-walk?

[slunkmonky]

Yesterday at the gym I did some abs and a light upperbody weight session. Afterwards I was walking on the treadmill as my girlfriend is training for a marathon and is usually running after my workout is over. So with my spare time I tried an experiment.

Although my heartrate was at about 100 bpm from working out, up from my usual 60, I tried as best I could to calm down and did a few short breath holds. I got down to about 84. Then I did a 1 minute breath up with my feet off the tread so I wasn't moving. Then I held my breath and started walking slow, 2.0 mph no incline, I walked for 15 seconds to simulate a low effort swim to whatever depth would take 15 seconds, then I put my feet on the side of the tread again to simulate stopping and taking a look around for 15 seconds with low to no effort, then I 'swam' 15 seconds back to the 'surface' (walked for another 15 seconds before I breathed in).

So it was a 45 second 'dive' without having to drive to the lake. I've read once that apnea walkers can go up to 400 meters? I've never really tried to hit a distance although I used to do a twice weekly apnea-bike as my cycling route involved a trip past a sewage treatment facility and I would hold my breath for some time until I got through the stink cloud.

Be very cafeful if you try this though. I was trying to breath in as much as as possible before I'd hold my breath and when I packed my lungs while standing I had to fight off passing out for the first 10 seconds or so of each 'dive'. If 100 people try this I guarantee you over 20 will fall over on the treadmill haha.

 

[Hyscore]

I tried this while I was cutting the grass yesterday. (Hand mower not ride-on.) I suppose we could all live our lives like this, travelling between imaginary air pockets until we get so proficient that we forget to breathe again... :crutch

 

[Simos]

Interesting exercises but i'd be quite careful - especially with apnea cycling, sounds like a recipe for disaster. You can try it on the exercise bike in the gym, perhaps breathing through a straw etc.
If you are doing apnea walks, I'd recommend doing them on passive exhale, having a buddy and doing them on a soft surface

 

[Andrew the fish]

Be very cafeful if you try this though. I was trying to breath in as much as as possible before I'd hold my breath and when I packed my lungs while standing I had to fight off passing out for the first 10 seconds or so of each 'dive'. If 100 people try this I guarantee you over 20 will fall over on the treadmill haha.

And I thought I am beginner here... Anyways, both things HV and packing you were doing are counterproductive, uncomfortable and harmful. And dangerous. No kidding. Quit doing both, learn how to relax instead, results won't be immediate but very well worth the effort.

Do some reading here, pay particular attention to what some people say about packing, FRC, hyperventilation, ok?

 

[Simos]

Yes fighting off passing out doesn't sound like a great way to start a breathhold

 

[slunkmonky]

Yes fighting off passing out doesn't sound like a great way to start a breathhold

Taking a deep breath never made me feel dizzy in water, but on the treadmil it was like downing a 6 pack in 5 seconds. I don't do that often (apnea walk on the treadmill or down 6 packs in 5 seconds)

As far as hyperventilating, there is a good wiki about shallow water blackout which shows on a chart how hyperventilating delays the urge to breathe long enough that hypoxia can take hold and go lights out. Scary stuff. I just breath moderately before a dive and try to relax my whole body. I'm not trying to set any records for duration so no matter how long I'm holding my breath on land I dont go further than about 1 minute 15 seconds in water. I can do 2 minutes on land on my first try for the most part. I dont know if you can post vids in forums here but I'll find out now. Here's a typical dive for me.
<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BX0HnNL9qO4?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


if that doesn't embed the link is here. [ame=http://youtu.be/BX0HnNL9qO4]‪Barton Springs Diving‬&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Simos]

Please take this in the best way possible and as some friendly advice: having seen your video and reading all your descriptions (including the one on YouTube) I think you are down a slippery slope and heading for trouble.

1:15-1:30 dive time is not insignificant, especially when you are carrying a rock on one hand and a camera on the other.

I can also tell that you have some bad habits that don't help in terms of safety: apart from diving alone which is a big no no, you're diving with the snorkel and don't have a good recovery routine as soon as you surface (you looked more worried looking at the camera!).

Please think a bit about what you are doing, it only takes one dive where you push yourself too much to BO and without a buddy, you're gone :-( looking at your watch doesn't help prevent BOs, quite the opposite in my opinion...

 

[Simos]

Also bear in mind, that BOs are more complex than you think and not completely understood by even the more knowledgeable freedivers - there are many factors that come into play eg surface interval, blood pressure etc so you might be perfectly fine doing a 1min dive 99 times out of 100 and the 100th time you BO without any warning signs...

 

[Simos]

I would really recommend taking a Freediving course, they'll teach you lots and diving with friends is more fun anyway

 

[slunkmonky]

I guess I shouldn't post the other video I took that day of chubby 15 year old mexican kids doing rock runs with no goggles on and wrestling eachother at the bottom. I tried to tell them all the stuff you are saying but no comprende.

 

[Hyscore]

Hi Simos - I understand the sense of what you are saying although as a snorkeller I was always told in the past never to remove the snorkel mouthpiece especially in rough water. (I intend to do a free diving intro course so will no doubt learn "why" soon.) The main point of this post is that I would have thought that there are thousands of casual snorkel divers who do similar dives to the ones that slunkmonky has described - me included. And of course despite what we are told about the buddy system a lot of such diving is done alone. It is almost as if the thousands (millions?) participating in this innocent hobby are unknowingly dicing with death if shallow water blackout is as unpredictable as you say. Is there any rule of thumb as to when a little innocent goggling turns into a high risk free dive?

 

[Simos]

Hi Hyscore - I understand where you are coming from. I used to do the same before I even know what freediving is. There is no hard and fast rule of when some innocent snorkelling fun might turn to something more dangerous.

Although in many place they also ask you to have a buddy when snorkelling believe it or not (as the only danger is no BO) I would say that someone that does snorkelling with the occasional shallow duck dive to look at something and come up right away is not that high risk from BO. Having said this don't forget that BO is not the only danger: you might get caught on a line, have an unrelated medical problem etc

For me, the moment to start thinking about a Freediving course is when you actively start enjoying going deeper or staying down for longer.

As soon as this mental shift happens, you are in a lot more risk in my opinion - that's when people start pushing more, staying down for longer, hyperventilating and having a target oriented mentality etc.

Taking a freediving course is the way to go in my opinion. Not only for safety but you learn lots and will be amazed about the progress you will make.

 

[Hyscore]

Hi Hyscore - I understand where you are coming from. I used to do the same before I even know what freediving is. There is no hard and fast rule of when some innocent snorkelling fun might turn to something more dangerous.

Although in many place they also ask you to have a buddy when snorkelling believe it or not (as the only danger is no BO) I would say that someone that does snorkelling with the occasional shallow duck dive to look at something and come up right away is not that high risk from BO. Having said this don't forget that BO is not the only danger: you might get caught on a line, have an unrelated medical problem etc

For me, the moment to start thinking about a Freediving course is when you actively start enjoying going deeper or staying down for longer.

As soon as this mental shift happens, you are in a lot more risk in my opinion - that's when people start pushing more, staying down for longer, hyperventilating and having a target oriented mentality etc.

Taking a freediving course is the way to go in my opinion. Not only for safety but you learn lots and will be amazed about the progress you will make.

Thanks Simos. That all makes perfect sense and I guess the reality is that there must be a lot of people whose snorkelling has developed into something more serious and who are running the risk of shallow water BO every time they go in the water - some knowingly and some unknowingly.

 

[Simos]

Yes I think so - I am no expert HyScore, just my personal view. The thing is that in my view if you take a complete beginner who hasn't held their breath before or dived, they are very unlikely to be able to hold their breath anywhere near blacking out as the urge to breath will be too strong for them to resist (assuming no hyperventilation). Also in terms of depth, most people don't know how to equalise so they only dive a couple of metres in depth.

After a bit of practice, equalisation is worked out, dives get longer and things can get a bit more serious than just some snorkelling.

You'll be surprised how fast breath hold times get longer (especially in people with a natural talent), especially after a course!

By the way, there are some good Freediving clubs your way if interested

 

[Hyscore]

Definitely interested. Have been in touch with Mandy Mermaid and hope to visit one of their pool sessions soon.

 

[slunkmonky]

I got into diving initially by training for a triathlon. I was swimming in a pool to train when the weather was too cold to swim in these springs in the video (even in summer they are 65-68 degrees) but when I would swim in open water to get an idea of what my time would be I realized I should just train in open water so I get a wetsuit to keep my self from freezing.

Swimming in open water was scarier because training early in the mornings I couldnt see the bottom, also the water is less stable that a 5 foot pool. Then I realized, goggles were blocking a lot of my view and I should use a mask from time to time just to make sighting easier and such. I decided I liked a swim mask much better. What I lost in water dynamics I got back in an increased sense of awareness. Then I started seeing things on the bottom.

Before I'd get all out of breath from working out, I'd swim down a few feet and look at the fish (which I never even knew were in the natural pool I was swimming in) but my ears would hurt. I started reading about scuba diving to understand how they can go down 40 meters and such. I decided to get a nose purge mask and thought, why not just get a snorkeling kit?

After I got to the point where I could reliably equalize hands free I really got to take a look around and that got me to wondering what's a safe bottom time when I'm doing this all outside of any formal training?

So to get an idea I started holding my breath on land and after a few weeks I was able to comfortably surpass 1 minute before any swallowing, contractions etc. Just days later I was able to do 2:45. So them I'd start a workout. A few pushups, hold my breath until a contraction, a few more pushups to 'surface.' I can typically hold my breath and work for longer that 1:40 after my 3rd or 4th breath hold. I think this is as a result of my much cardio I do and how much lower my heart rate is compared to when I was more into weights or just not working out.

I find my heart rate before diving related brachycardia (heart slowing) kicks in is about 60 (technically this is already a state of brachycardia except doctors note that endurance athletes typically have 'abnormally low' heart rates, Lance Armstrong's heart rate is something like 30 bpm) -- after a few dives I'm sitting at around 52.

I am meeting up with a dive buddy in august to set a static apnea time and try a longer duration dive to feel it's effects and understand what is beyond my current cut off time of 1:15.

Let the faux academic brow beating commence.