Exhale Diving for the "average" diver

[cdavis]

Exhale diving, aka, half lung, FRC, etc, is the "new thing" in freediving. Experts like Sebastion Murat and Eric Fattah have blazed a fascinating trail. It seems like a better way to dive, but doing any depth with it takes quite a lot of perseverance, at least for some of us. None the less, more and more "average joe" divers, people like me, are trying it and liking the results. I’d love to hear from some more divers about their experiences, what they did to train, how long it took, results, what type of diving they have adapted the technique to, etc. We are in very much an experimental stage in exhale diving. Getting our experiences together could be valuable to all. Below is my story, what’s yours?

I can remember reading stuff several years back about Sebastion Murat and thinking "this guy is nuts, fascinating, maybe superman, but nuts. This can’t possibly work for average diving." Or can it? The question ate at me.

About a year ago, I started playing with exhale technique, having read everything I could find on DB and elsewhere about the technique. Progress was fast. In a couple of months, I was diving 70 ft at about half lung. Straining like crazy to equalize at the bottom, but, hey, I could do it. Serious swelled head. Decided I really liked the technique after diving exhale all one day in 70 or so then going full lung for some deep dives the next day. It was such a huge and unpleasant amount of work fighting buoyancy to swim down the first 30 ft or so full lung, yuk! I was definitely hooked on exhale. And, being a full speed ahead type, if 70 was good, 90 was better. A couple of months later, I did a 90 ft dive, felt really great, I was pumped. Did another about 5 minutes later and got squeezed, but good. This started a several month period where I kept re-injuring myself, trying to go too fast. Got to the point where I got squeeze symptoms from diaphragm stretches, even from contractions during dynamics. Got to the point it was scary; maybe this mess was permanent and I couldn’t dive anymore. This was serious! Time to call for help. Enter Laminar.

I asked his advice on how to learn exhale diving. Being a gentleman, he didn’t comment on the intelligence of my previous activity. However, his response wasn’t what I wanted to hear. "You need to dive 2-3 days a week to get your lungs used to exhale" Mouthfill also seemed really important. Since there’s no way I can go real diving 3 days a week and I can’t mouthfill, things looked bleak. Being inventive, I got him to help me work out a training program for learning exhale in the pool. Neither of us was sure it would work, but I could get to the pool 3 days/wk so, lets go. He wanted me to proceed at a pace that I thought was ridiculously slow, but I guess he was right. I kept speeding up and re-injuring myself, although to less and less degree. I backed up and started over a bunch. Anyway, here is what I did, minus all the starting over.

Exhale dynamics, shallow water: Starting with minimal exhale, slowly, over weeks, exhaling more and more, down to FRC, about 2/3 exhale for me. Exhale, stay still in the water till the first urge to breath, start swimming, come up when it feels necessary.

Exhale for depth and equalization, 4 meter deep end. Starting with minimal exhale, same as above, but with more emphasis on equalization. Continue process with more and more exhale. Less distance as exhale got deeper.

Note: spotter required for all of above

After a month or so, I was comfortable with a full exhale in 4 meters, lying on the bottom for a minute or so. Then I started reverse packing, about 1 extra per week. This is my own idea, not Laminar’s. You can hurt yourself easily with negatives, especially when staying on the bottom for an extended period. Never-the-less, being bull headed, I felt I needed this to get acclimated to increasing depth, especially since I couldn’t mouthfill. This time it seemed to work, but I had to go real slow and back up several times.


Results:

First, as the body got used to exhale, my times in the pool got longer and longer. Same thing in real diving, so training was carrying over into the real world. Now I am diving longer, sometimes much longer, on exhale than previously on inhale. Quicker recovery, too. The key is making the first half of the dive as close to a static as possible.

Second, I got comfortable again in deeper and deeper water. Right now 80 ft is a slight stretch, but ok. 70 ft is no problem at all. 90 will take some more time, but I will get there, safely.

Third, as the months went by, I could feel my lungs getting comfortable with greater and greater levels of negative pressure. Some discussion in this forum about thickening blood vessel walls in the lungs aiding engorgement of the lung with blood. Maybe this is what’s happening, I don’t know. Whatever, I’m comfortable at levels of negative pressure that would have squeezed me in the past.

Bottom line, you can train exhale in the pool, but putting it all together requires real diving, too.

Sincere appreciation to Laminar for all his time expertise and patience.

Ok, that’s my story, what’s yours???

 

[Noah]

Very interesting, is that the "experiment" you were wanting to try out on me? Went out to 130' Mon to shoot and did 15-20 drops to 110', fifteen min breath ups and no ill effects the next day.... I have been doing a few negative statics, I wonder if that may have helped?? Whatever it is, lungs feel fine and I'm looking forward to hunting deeper next time.

 

[laminar]

Sincere appreciation to Laminar for all his time expertise and patience.

You're most welcome, Connor. Nice to see the whole progression and your squeeze free final results!

My favourite part of the FRC process was learning that rec dives could be longer and much more enjoyable.

I find now that even a slightly over inhalation feels wrong. It's very strange.

Pete

 

[Kars]

On the World Championship in Sharm 2007, I did not pack, just a slow full breath, for my CWNF dive to 43m, and it a big improvement in comfort, relaxation.

Now with my divebuddy we're doing passive exhale and less than passive exhale dives to 15m at a local lake, and I really enjoy the 'long' glide, the relaxation is gives, and mostly the minimal loss of boyancy at the bottom. My current setup is a 5mm suit and just 2 kg. (sweet water) Doing CNF I just need to do 1 good duckdive and 1 stroke to fall at a nice pace. On the way up I now need 4,5 strokes for the 15m.

This weekend I hope we find the 21m spot in some other lake, and continou with FRC and below FRC experiments.
Personally I think I'm pretty flexible and capeble in having my diafragm and chest collapsing. Though I have to work on mouth-full and BTV. Both I've learned, but every season I need to relearn and brush up the techniques.

We train at a 5m pool where we also make training empty lung dives to 5m. The philosophy I have is that a 5m empty dive for me at the moment is similar to a 50m full lungs (~165ft) dive, and should have a similar divetime and profile. Allong a line a I slowly get down, feet first, land at the bottom stay there for a 15-20 s and slowly get up having a total divetime of 1'45" - 2" when a gradually and slowly breath in. I think it's important not to have any contractions during the dive. At the most a mild one on the last meter of the acent. This to avoid injury. I also avoid having cold unstretched muscles, and being cold.
Nice touch is the vasoconstriction (after) effects upon surfacing when one feels blood flowing back to one's limbs These empty lung dives to 5m also put great stress on the heart, as I've been measured to have at one time during such dive a HR of arround 17 BPM (measured at the neck artery) by a medical student because the HR monitor couldn't register below 30 and read 00... Another reason I go slowly down and up allong a line.
The next pooltraining I'll have on friday, I'll attempt to measure my HR during the empty lung exercises.

I Agree with Laminar's advise, go slow take small steps.

Intresting thread! Keep it up!

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

 

[watts]

I have recently gone back to frc break point dives in the pool followed by a no fins swim with a small drogue which allows for no glide. I find that it is a great change from inhale maxs with packing. I wear no mask and will probaly revert to no nose clip too. I havnt wore my heart rate monitor recently but previous dives show nearly a 1/3 drop in heart rate. Also after spending most of the summer doing full exhales working on how deep i can get the mouthfill and use it well i now feel little to no pressure on even full exhales which is a great feeling. It just takes time and patience.
Has anyone else been doing frc,s in the pool followed by swims? Experiences?

 

[cdavis]

Noah: Yea, that was part of the experiment. Come on down, I got lots of other ideas.

Laminar: I'm not completely free of symptoms all the time, just much much better. Its a work in progress.

Kars: I'll be very interested in your heart rate info. I've tried to feel mine (no meter) and it doesn't seem to slow down all that much. I need a meter.

Funny how different people are on exhales. For me, a full exhale and lots of reverse pacs in a 4 m pool isn't any more than 130 ft or so. Very odd.

Your weighting is very different from mine, I'm 5 lbs with a 3 mil suit for about the same performance.

Watts: Any idea why it gets easier to do negatives (or depth in exhale) with practice? I'm seeing the same thing, but my chest flexibility doesn't seem to be increasing near as fast as depth ability. Seems like, at least for me, there is something physiological going on in the lung.

 

[Mullins]

I've only played around with FRC diving, using it as a warmup technique before constant weight dives while I've been over in Egypt and the Bahamas. Despite not having much of a background in deep diving (ok I've gone reasonably deep, but in brief stints only) I adjusted pretty quickly as far as chest flexibility goes. However equalisation is what limits me. It's ok with a noseclip and mouthfill at about 5m but a lot harder with a mask. It would be interesting to try deep FRC dives but my time in deep water is so limited I can't really afford to be mucking about with a training approach that may not aid my competition diving. I'll get around to it one day.

If I start looking seriously at CNF then it might be a better way to go than inhale + packing, as I have such a huge buoyancy change that I find it hard to get off the surface without fins. I don't expect it would be too difficult to switch back and forth between the two dive strategies.

 

[watts]

Mullins what do you mean you can't really afford to be mucking about with a training approach that may not aid my competition diving. IMO the equalizing skills that you are forced to learn with frc/exhale dives and the pressure adaption that you get are something that alot of divers overlook.

 

[chrismar]

Mullins what do you mean you can't really afford to be mucking about with a training approach that may not aid my competition diving. IMO the equalizing skills that you are forced to learn with frc/exhale dives and the pressure adaption that you get are something that alot of divers overlook.

He means that while there may be a benefit there, the more immediate priorities, like handling the narcossis for instance, are more important during the short amount of time that he has in deep water.

Locally we don't have enough depth to stress Dave's body sufficiently.

 

[Mullins]

If I've got 1-2 weeks to train for a CW event I need to be spending most of that time doing inhale dives to depth, because that's the only way of experiencing the narcosis, fine-tuning (ok, rough-tuning!) my dive strategy and finding out how deep I can expect to go come competition day. FRC would be helpful longer-term, but it's too different to be useful within this timeframe. It does not properly simulate deep equalising, at least not for me, possibly because I don't encounter the same problems with air viscosity, narcosis, mouthfill timing, contractions etc that make equalising such a challenge on deep inhale dives.

I don't have a problem with pressure adaptation on deep dives. I think I'm a bit lucky in that regard.

Edit: Looks like Chris got in first. He pretty much summed it up.

 

[watts]

I know what you mean having limited time in deep water with Sydneys ocean conditions its hard to get any momentum diving every blue moon. I agree the sensations and equalizing isn't the same on frc as it is on inhale/packing but it is suprising that for alot of divers equalizing is THE limiting factor and im suprised more time isnt spent on simulating depth on full exhales to realy nail the mouthfil technique and pressure issues.
Is narcosis your main limiting factor at the moment and if so how do you best work on improving you tollerance.

cheers Nat

 

[fflupo]

for me FRC and empty dives have changed my whole approach to freediving.
besides the lower COD, the state of mind in which i get makes the different.. after i feel the blood leaving legs and arms like a river my brain seems to go in a meditation mode, the drop of the HR is magnificent,
4 me it is a state of FLOW experience and this gives the high peak in enjoyment and performance and the mind-power to keep on training step by step

in the pool i train empty static and after the first contractions i start the dynamic and in the sea i go empty/FRC down on a rope and do a static at depth focused on relaxation, swimming up is hard in the beginning because of the tight compressed belly section i found it disturbing for the swim/fin-movement but now after almost 3 years i m used.
80% of my dives are recreational and all of them FRC

gravity sucks

 

[Mullins]

Watts - yes narcosis is my biggest worry. Just have to get used to it I guess... Like I say, one of these days I'll have a proper go at some deep FRC dives and see how I get on.

Sinking all the way from the surface is a cool feeling eh Fflupo

 

[fcallagy]

Guys a simple question on frc diving, how hard is the last 5-10m of the return. I know i should be able to stop finning and float conserving energy but i usually continue to kick due to the urge to breath, that siad I can feel the buoyancy lifting me and am gratefull for it.
How hard are the last few meters when you no longer have the advantge of buoyancy?

 

[cdavis]

The last few meters are not that hard, different, but not hard(qualifier: I'm not diving more that 80 exhale, yet). Being less buoyant, you have to keep swimming longer than on full inhale. How much varies with the person. I miss the easy drift up, but the advantages going down far overshadow more effort on the last portion of the ascent.

Connor

 

[efattah]

For those interested, I would add that doing all your training at FRC volume reduces your apnea capacity during a full inhale or packing.

I believe it is because the 2,3-DPG level in your blood is modified and optimized for your lung volume. This controls the 'left or right shift' of the Hb-O2 dissociation curve.

I once did a hard phase of FRC training, and went to a competition and competed with inhale+packing. My performances were reduced compared to previously, even though my FRC performances were huge at the time.

The key way to watch or monitor this effect is simple. Upon starting FRC training, you will find that your FRC & exhale static times increase, and your inhale (or packing) static times decrease.

So, I think this effect would limit anyone who attempts to compete in one event with packing and another event at FRC, in the same competition. Personally I think that would be very hard to do.

 

[Kars]

Dear Feargus,

From my limited experience, some -less than FRC- dives to 15m wearing a full 5mm suit and 2 kg, I need to say that the near nutral boyancy is very nice, the last meters it's just a matter of maintaining the speed you have. Since one is much less negative at the bottom, its much easyer to swim up when instead of being 5kg Negative being just 2KG negative. Especially when doing CNF.

About my HR doing exhale dive in the 5m pool today.
My friend measured at the bottom a HR of 40 at my wrist. The surface pulse was 66. Maybe my lack of good sleep, and the fast swimming just before kept it from sinking further. Today I had a hard time exhaling enough to feel some decent stretch, needing to do negative packing. In short I feel 'm geting more flexible.

Can anyone please share his or her experience doing FRC CNF?

Love, Courage and water,

Kars

 

[efattah]

Doing FRC CNF, I can go deeper that CNF with packing.

I haven't done 'target' or 'max' dives in this fashion, but while diving with a 5/6.5mm suit, just for fun, my (safe) limit for CNF with packing was 21m, where with FRC I would routinely do safe and easy CNF dives to 25-27m.

Personally I think CNF is where FRC really shines, and this is what Seb Murat was saying all along.

 

[fflupo]

i did some deeper (40m+) cnf frc noseclip no mask dives last year,
even with a 5mm no weight and it is a reality check for the stroke and glide technic especially the work for the lower arms, to anchor them in the water and pull myself up; i discovered how poor my leg-stroke was;
..after the transition i let some water in my suit and start to swim up the cold water makes a big difference ( survival shock

i although followed some cwt divers on cnf and the speed difference wasn t big

on recreational dives i hit the ground sometimes hard because of the negative boyancy i also like to go down in the blue without a reference of cliffs or ropes it is like a BASE jump and the bodyposition makes quit a speed difference, adjusting the angle of attack just with the fingers..

what i find is that most of the times after deeper FRC/empty sessions i need to crack in my back again, anybody has similar experiences ?

 

[Kars]

i did some deeper (40m+) cnf frc noseclip no mask dives last year,
even with a 5mm no weight and it is a reality check for the stroke and glide technic especially the work for the lower arms, to anchor them in the water and pull myself up; i discovered how poor my leg-stroke was;
..after the transition i let some water in my suit and start to swim up the cold water makes a big difference ( survival shock

i although followed some cwt divers on cnf and the speed difference wasn t big

on recreational dives i hit the ground sometimes hard because of the negative boyancy i also like to go down in the blue without a reference of cliffs or ropes it is like a BASE jump and the bodyposition makes quit a speed difference, adjusting the angle of attack just with the fingers..

what i find is that most of the times after deeper FRC/empty sessions i need to crack in my back again, anybody has similar experiences ?

Wearing a 5mm, no weights, and still much negative at depth? How many KG do you estimate?

I'm planning to wear no weights, and 3mm suit for FRC dives to 30 +. Maybe my mediocre sized lungs 6L (188cm, 72KG) will be an advantage due to a smaller buoyancy change?
In my CNF dives I glide down, but on the way up I deliberateley have a contious stroke to avoid stop and starting which cost in my view much more energy.

FFlupo I love your base jump story. I've got a whish to make similar dives of something like 5 min to 50m in parabolic way, flying like you mentioned, equalising handsfree, being close to nutral in buoyancy, without suit or clothing, with my dear monofin.

Anyway something for the future

Love, Courage and water,

Kars