• Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:

    • Join over 44,280+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
    • Participate in and browse from over 516,210+ posts.
    • Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
    • Post your own photos or view from 7,441+ user submitted images.
    • All this and much more...

    You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

Exhale through your snorkel and exhaling before breaking the surface?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

tuboludo

Atheism is beautiful :D
Aug 5, 2012
213
23
58
I use a snorkel when spear fishing and even when I am free diving. I could do the deep free dives without a snorkel, but it is a habit of mine to even use my snorkel when going into the big blue.

When I am diving at depths up to about 7 meters I simply exhale (breath out) through my snorkel AFTER breaking the surface unless I have been packing my lungs with extra air. Every time I pack my lungs, even if only a little, I exhale (breathe out) just before I break the surface. And if I am spear fishing it do it with the snorkel still in my mouth.

On deep free dives I will take the snorkel out of my mouth on my way up and I will exhale naturally just before breaking the surface so that I naturally can take a breath of fresh air when I resurface.

I have recently been having a discussion on youtube with some guys who says it is dangerous to:

1: Exhale through my snorkel

2: Breathing out right before I break the surface

Problem is that none of them have been able to explain to my why it is dangerous.

Can anyone in this forum explain why it should be dangerous?
 
I will have a crack - but I am sure there are others who are more qualified. I remove my snorkel from my mouth for two reasons.
1. The bubbles leaving the snorkel as you dive make noises that some fish will hear and if you are spearfishing then stealth is generally a good thing.
2. If you black out as you ascend then you have an open pipe funnelling water into your mouth and lungs.
3. If safety divers pick you up when freediving they should be trained to hold your mouth closed. This is not possible with a snorkel in your mouth.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Woops. Make that 3 reasons (although points 2 and 3 are similar)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
1. The bubbles leaving the snorkel as you dive make noises that some fish will hear and if you are spearfishing then stealth is generally a good thing.
2. If you black out as you ascend then you have an open pipe funnelling water into your mouth and lungs.
3. If safety divers pick you up when freediving they should be trained to hold your mouth closed. This is not possible with a snorkel in your mouth.

Okay, so it has nothing to do with some sort of weird hyperventilating black-out when blowing your snorkel when re-surfacing?! Good to know and thought so too.


My current snorkel is very elastic and the pressure compress it, so there isn’t much water in it and less water to blow out when resurfacing, not to mention no bubbles to upset the little fishies - that said I believe my little fishies are more upset with this big black shadow with two big eyes nearing them – and in my experience all those fancy camouflage diving suits don’t help one bit – the little fishies aren’t that blind (stupid?) :)


And since I always dive alone your 3rd reason doesn’t apply for me :)
 
On the stealth side if things ... When hunting certain fish I try to dive down one side of a rock and then swim slowly round it so I use the rock as cover. This means I minimise the big black shadow above factor.

How does water compress your snorkel when it has an open top? And besides, Shallow water black out will likely happen relatively close to the surface so snorkel compression shouldn't be a factor even if it were possible.

If you are diving alone then I would say that having your snorkel out of your mouth is one thing you can do yo make things a little safer.

Also, check out hook breaths https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/what-is-a-hook-breath.29204/




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
On the stealth side if things ... When hunting certain fish I try to dive down one side of a rock and then swim slowly round it so I use the rock as cover. This means I minimise the big black shadow above factor.

How does water compress your snorkel when it has an open top? And besides, Shallow water black out will likely happen relatively close to the surface so snorkel compression shouldn't be a factor even if it were possible.

If you are diving alone then I would say that having your snorkel out of your mouth is one thing you can do yo make things a little safer.

Also, check out hook breaths https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/what-is-a-hook-breath.29204/

Okay, maybe I am wrong about the snorkel. My new “soft material” snorkel just seem to have much less water in it when I resurface. Just my personal experience.


When I go deep I do remove my snorkel on my way up!


When spear fishing in shallow waters I keep it in my mouth all the time (more or less) so I can keep my eyes on my hunting-game (or predators who wants to steal my prey, such as Barracudas).


In fact someone told me about hook breaths before. And I do practice my own variant of it. I blow my snorkel (same technique when I am not using the snorkel) just before I break the surface, and the very moment I break the surface I take a deep breath and keep it forcefully in my lungs to avoid possible black out.


When coming up from a deep dive (with the snorkel out of my mouth) I even level my whole body vertically, so if I black out I will be laying on the surface with my face up – I am very buoyant at surface level – little weight on my belt. Again a safety precaution on my part, my own idea I might proudly add :) the level out thing.
 
I am a little puzzled that you pack for a 7M dive but whatever...

I do not use a snorkel, period, even for spearing, just not my thing, but some extremely accomplished spearos I know have woken from surface black-outs, face down breathing in their snorkels. They were diving alone and always surface with a snorkel in their mouth. If you are diving with an active safety buddy (as you should) it is usually recommended that you spit the snorkel out. This is so that in case of BO you don't have an open pipe running into your airway, and based on the assumption that your buddy will be watching out for you a sprint you to the surface in the case of BO.

Also your first breaths, hook breaths or otherwise, should NOT be deep breaths. That is exactly wrong and could get you in trouble.

Dive safe, and good luck. You would probably get a lot of out of a freediving class.
 
I am a little puzzled that you pack for a 7M dive but whatever...

I do not use a snorkel, period, even for spearing, just not my thing, but some extremely accomplished spearos I know have woken from surface black-outs, face down breathing in their snorkels. They were diving alone and always surface with a snorkel in their mouth. If you are diving with an active safety buddy (as you should) it is usually recommended that you spit the snorkel out. This is so that in case of BO you don't have an open pipe running into your airway, and based on the assumption that your buddy will be watching out for you a sprint you to the surface in the case of BO.

Also your first breaths, hook breaths or otherwise, should NOT be deep breaths. That is exactly wrong and could get you in trouble.

Dive safe, and good luck. You would probably get a lot of out of a freediving class.

First some background:

I am 49 today. I have been diving since the age of 8. Attended a diving club from the age of 12 where I took all the different diplomas and tests in snorkel diving to get the official license they had back in those days (obviously things has develop since then. We were thought to never take more than 3 deep breaths before a dive in order to prevent black-outs. Today I only take one + sometimes packing). I wanted to attend the diving club before my age of 12, but they had an age restriction of 12 for snorkel divers and 15 for scuba divers. At the age of 13 I easily did 50 meter in the swimming pool with fins on. Did my first 20 meters open ocean dive at the age of 14. Almost drowned at the age of 14 too on 12M in dark muddy water where I got my leg entangled in an anchor rope (long story) Because I was the only boy under the age of 15 in the diving club, I was always dropped off alone from the diving boat somewhere near the shore as all the scuba divers continued on and came back to pick me up later. I guess that is why I have always been used to and actually enjoy diving alone – and I simply don’t know anybody who dive as much as I do, hence the second reason why I dive alone. So far I have never experienced a blackout, not even when I was 14, but I was pretty off from this world for about 20 minutes once back up in the diving boat which anchor rope I got entangled in.

Regarding your comments:

I pack my lungs on a 7M dives for a longer bottom time when hunting around, but not always and for let's say 7M I only pack 3 or 5 times, not that much like I do on much deeper dives (always wondered what the maximum should be for deep dives?!)


Those spearos who woke with the snorkel in their mouth, they were breathing you say, so they had no issues with the water from their snorkel running into their lungs or anything like that, or how was that?


Yeah, maybe I have misunderstood the whole idea of hook breathing. Why should the first breath not be a deep breath? How should my first breath be in your opinion?


Thanks for the input - Life is Beautiful
 
The point of a hook breath is to raise blood pressure, and keep the highest possible partial pressure of O2 in the lung, both to maintain consciousness. A deep breath/big exhale at the conclusion of long apnea does the opposite. Recovery breaths can be deep but a hook breath is a quick sip of air, held for a few seconds with intentional tension on the abdomen and core muscles.

Sudden drop in blood pressure is a primary cause of surface BO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tuboludo
The point of a hook breath is to raise blood pressure, and keep the highest possible partial pressure of O2 in the lung, both to maintain consciousness. A deep breath/big exhale at the conclusion of long apnea does the opposite. Recovery breaths can be deep but a hook breath is a quick sip of air, held for a few seconds with intentional tension on the abdomen and core muscles.

Sudden drop in blood pressure is a primary cause of surface BO.

Thanks again. I might be getting old, but it is never to late to learn new stuff. Thank you!
 
Thanks for the info Lance. Over forty years ago, we had a competitor sleeping on the surface and I have never understood how he got in that position. At least two others had done the same thing. I was told that if you can get a good breath in, you will be awake in 10-15 seconds, even if you black out. I'd be interested in any comments/stories of yours. One breath, carrying my weight belt in my hand on questionable deep dives and always heading up at two minutes, without a doubt, saved my life. One of my few claims to fame is shooting 23 Black Sea Bass (Hapu'u). Never killed one but I saved two others by swimming them down until the bladders compressed.
 
Thanks for the info Lance. Over forty years ago, we had a competitor sleeping on the surface and I have never understood how he got in that position. At least two others had done the same thing. I was told that if you can get a good breath in, you will be awake in 10-15 seconds, even if you black out. I'd be interested in any comments/stories of yours. One breath, carrying my weight belt in my hand on questionable deep dives and always heading up at two minutes, without a doubt, saved my life. One of my few claims to fame is shooting 23 Black Sea Bass (Hapu'u). Never killed one but I saved two others by swimming them down until the bladders compressed.

Yeah, the snorkel thing is a point of contention....

I know Terry Maas is an advocate of the snorkel in philosophy, but also he was spearing with no safety for most of career, as do many spearos. With an active, reliable safety buddy I think definitely snorkel out. If choosing to dive without a safety buddy and ascend snorkel out, an initial big breath (as OP described) would be increasing the chance of surface BO. If/when you came do you might have nothing to breathe but water.

As far as the 'one good breath' thing = wake up in 10-15 seconds, I can't speak to that directly but it seems to have worked for spearos who are around to tell the tale, although those no longer with us can not explain if they did anything different. To my knowledge the the idea of 'hook breaths' is a newer concept from the competitive freediving community which has evolved from the conditions in which they dive (tightly controlled and near limit dives, no snorkel, active safety). 40 years ago I am sure nobody did hook breaths, correct?

Personally, I have tried snorkels at various points and always hated them for so many reasons. I can't understand how anyone can like diving with a snorkel under any circumstances :).
 
You're right about the hook breaths.
'If choosing to dive without a safety buddy and ascend snorkel out, an initial big breath (as OP described) would be increasing the chance of surface BO. If/when you came do you might have nothing to breathe but water.' …but if you came to, the mammal dive reflex prevents you from inhaling water and you have time to roll over. Snorkels are funny. In 25 years, twice, when the bubble came out of the snorkel on level off, a white came over fast to investigate. One was over 50 feet away. The number goes up near a hundred for Yellowtail but never for Calico.
Oh for the good old days when only super divers could get to 100'. Now it isn't a good day until twice that or sand, of course.
 
You're right about the hook breaths.
'If choosing to dive without a safety buddy and ascend snorkel out, an initial big breath (as OP described) would be increasing the chance of surface BO. If/when you came do you might have nothing to breathe but water.' …but if you came to, the mammal dive reflex prevents you from inhaling water and you have time to roll over.

You have probably been diving and spearing longer than I have been alive so I respect your experience, and while I have seen probably a dozen sambas first hand, I have witnessed only a few in water black-outs, in competition settings. In all those cases the diver's first few breaths were somewhat involuntary and very weak, and I doubt they would have been able to roll over and get a clean breath... even with very attentive safeties yanking them up and trying to hold their airways out of the water, those divers always ended up breathing a little water. Not enough for secondary drowning or permanent damage, but I imagine without assistance they would've sucked in A LOT more water.
 
Your statement is true, unless you were born in the 40's.
Thanks for the input Lance. Almost the opposite of what I 'think' that I observed. The two worst b/o's seemed to require only that the safety diver keep the airway clear and wait (nothing else worked) but each one is unique and I'd bet that 'one size fits all' will not work.
To me, all training should be to get a fairly deep breath when you surface.
 
To me, all training should be to get a fairly deep breath when you surface.

So what I already do when diving/spearing alone is somewhat okay. When I surface (with or without snorkel) I Take a good deep breath and keep it for a second.

When spearing with a snorkel I am usually too busy to think about my breathing and sometimes exhausted when coming up (been hunting a little fishy), I’ve noticed that my natural reaction is to take several deep breaths after one another (through my snorkel, still busy looking at the action beneath me in the sea)

BUT HOW SHOULD THE FIRST BREATH BE LIKE IF NOT DEEP, HOW??????

(Why not just follow the bodies natural instincts of breathing, and naturally do what it asks you to do?)

PS, I never used to worry or even think about my breathing before I started reading stuff in this forum and I never had any problems. Now I am like; I wonder if I am going to pass out now? every time I am coming up from a dive. My main philosophy has always been to listen to my body and always dive within what I feel is my safety limit. Diving since the age of 8 my body should know by now what is going on! (Hell, my parents even took me swimming when I was a baby back in 1966)
 
Last edited:
Aloha Tuboludo. Sorry for jumping in on your page but I wanted to hear what Lance was willing to say.

If you haven't taken a lesson or two in the last ten years, it's highly recommended.

On retirement, after fifty years of on and off diving, PFI started me down the free diving road and in Kona you get to meet many of the world,s best instructors (and divers). The most difficult part, at first, was getting rid of all the old habits. The big surprise was how lucky I was to be alive. After learning how many spear fishermen die, I won't even dive to twenty meters and hook up the float, until a safety arrives.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tuboludo
Anyways. I have decided to make some test this weekend on shallow water black out with snorkel in the mouth. I will fill my lungs, dive to 3 meters and pretend that I am having a black out. I will try at 2 and 1 meter as well. I want to see what happens with the water in the snorkel as air will slowly leave my lungs, I expect. We shall see. On Monday I will let you know how the test went!
 
Anyways. I have decided to make some test this weekend on shallow water black out with snorkel in the mouth. I will fill my lungs, dive to 3 meters and pretend that I am having a black out. I will try at 2 and 1 meter as well. I want to see what happens with the water in the snorkel as air will slowly leave my lungs, I expect. We shall see. On Monday I will let you know how the test went!
So, I have been having this discussion with different people in different forums, whether or not to spearfish with a snorkel and what happen when you have shallow water black out with a snorkel I your mouth.
When I dive deep +5 meters, I take the snorkel out of my mouth on my way up, ascending form a dive, either I am only free diving or if I am spear fishing. Before I reach the surface I level out vertically with my face upwards, so that in case of a black out, I will end up on the surface with my face up off the water.
I usually pack my lungs (force extra air into them) before a deep dive, and because of that I exhale at a natural pace about 1 meter before my face/mouth breaks the surface. This has become a habit of mine since I once read that there can become complications when returning to the surface with packed lungs.
On debts of 1 – 5 meters I have the habit of keeping my snorkel in my mouth and blow it when I break the surface, or just before breaking the surface if I have been packing my lungs for longer bottom time.
With my lungs full of air on a single breath I am buoyant up to about the debt of 10 meters. So when I stop moving at 10 meters I will automatically ascend! I have very big lungs because I have been free diving as a child and a teenager. I had my lungs measured at the hospital last year and my numbers were supranormal: FEV1 4,46 – 117% FVC 6.80 – 145%
I have never experienced a shallow water black out and I never used to worry about it until people in the deeper blue forum started warning me when the saw my diving videos. Lately the discussion has been about diving with or without a snorkel, and how to take a correct first breath once back on the surface of the water.
One thing I have noticed is that no one, nobody have been able to give me a clear no-bullshit answer to how a first breath should be after a dive, long or short, deep or shallow. I therefore still follow my natural instincts and take a deep breath; sometime I hold it for a couple of seconds.
This weekend I have been experimenting with shallow water black outs (which according to what I have read occur from the debt of 5 meters). My experiments took place from the debt of about 2-3 meters.
I filled my lungs, one single deep breath, no packing, dive down and pretended to have shallow water black out with the snorkel in my mouth, by relaxing all the muscles in my body and stop moving. Every time my lungs would slowly empty themselves from air as my body ascended to the surface in an oblique vertical position with my head to be the first part of my body to break the surface.
Some of the air escaping my lungs would escape through my snorkel and some through my mouth. The snorkel stayed in my mouth on each attempt, however loosely, and when I broke the surface the snorkel was almost empty from water and I was able to breathe air again through my snorkel despite the water in my snorkel.
On this my personal experiment on shallow water black out on 2-3 meters I see no reason to follow you guys advice to dive without the snorkel in my mouth, since I believe I will have a grater chance of surviving a shallow water blackout with the snorkel in my mouth, rather than without.
This is a strictly a personal experiment only based on shallow dives (1-5 meters) and I guess you have to take my personal physics into consideration, my huge lung capacity, how much weight I am wearing etc. hence how buoyant I am.
I learned one important thing about myself yesterday when doing these experiments: ALWAYS FILL MY LUNGS MAXIMUM when diving in shallow waters. Why? Because I sometimes used to only fill my lungs 50% on dives up to 3 meters in order not to be very buoyant and therefore I didn’t have to work very hard to keep myself down at the bottom. With my lungs only filled 50% there will not be enough air to both bring me back to the surface and almost blow my snorkel free of water, as it did in these experiments.
I don’t encourage anybody to dive the way I do, but at the age of 49 (began diving when I was 8) I more and more believe that, as much as we human are design alike from Mother Nature, we are still very different in the details. And what works for me might not work for anybody else in the same situation and environment.
I will later make and post a video about my personal diving techniques where I will add some visual aids (got to buy myself an action man diving figurine) Ha ha Ha…
And remember: Life is Beautiful <3
Yours, Heini Grünbaum
 
DeeperBlue.com - The Worlds Largest Community Dedicated To Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing

ABOUT US

ISSN 1469-865X | Copyright © 1996 - 2024 deeperblue.net limited.

DeeperBlue.com is the World's Largest Community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving, Ocean Advocacy and Diving Travel.

We've been dedicated to bringing you the freshest news, features and discussions from around the underwater world since 1996.

ADVERT