Explanations needed !!!!!

[gserghiou]

Hi all,

I have been reading the threads on the forums regarding apnea and its techniques etc.

I am a very amateur spearfisher and i am looking into improving my apnea for fishing reasons. I am only using 2-3 deep breaths before diving down and as expected i do not last long....

Started 'training' in a pool which i find very difficult as others look at me strangely (so i go 9:00 p.m when very few people there)

If i do a few deep breaths and exhales (about 1:30 minutes) then i can do a dynamic without fins of around 50 meters.(is this what you class as VENTILATE or HYPERVENTILATION ???)

So, i have come accross the CO2 and O2 tables which i will start doing as soon as i get some answers :

1. What exactly do you mean VENTILATE !!! ????
Please state rate of breaths, how long to hold them , how deep to breeth etc.

2. What about hypervatilation and how does it compare to the normal VENTILATION BREATHS for the CO2 and O2 tables ????

Also please explain about oxygenation (and tingling sensation i read on other threads ) and hypercapnic symptoms....


Can you please try to answer these few questions for me, or direct me to the appropriate thread....

Thank you,

George

 

[Boomstick]

Hi George,

I'd recommend you look up a freediving club or course and take some formal instruction, this is what I did and it really helps. It will also answer all your questions.

On another note, don't do any breath-hold activities alone you can drown in the bath, let alone a pool.
(spear fishing is probably the only exception to this)
You need to train with a buddy that knows the dangers of freediving and can help, should you black out.


BM

 

[gserghiou]

Hi,

I am plannign on taking a freediving course soon......

But i just want some staring information on my above asked questions to clear some things out for me.

So.....any answers to the questions ?????


Thanks,

George

 

[tylerz]

Started 'training' in a pool which i find very difficult as others look at me strangely (so i go 9:00 p.m when very few people there)

If i do a few deep breaths and exhales (about 1:30 minutes) then i can do a dynamic without fins of around 50 meters.

Please don't do this alone or with the idea that the lifeguard will save you if there is a problem! They won't because it will take a long time before they understand what has happened different from what you were doing prior to blacking out.

(is this what you class as VENTILATE or HYPERVENTILATION ???)

Ventilating and hyperventilating are the same thing. Some people in the freediving community have come to use them to refer to different things, but that is person/school specific and very ambiguous. Refer to the following post for an explanation of this:
[ame="http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?p=599048#post599048"]New FreeDiver In Training - Page 4[/ame]

So, i have come accross the CO2 and O2 tables which i will start doing as soon as i get some answers :

Sorry, have to find what people recommend for tables from somebody else. However, in general you could hyperventilate quickly and shallowly, slow and deeply, quick and deep, adjusting the specifics of rates and lengths as you see fit to allow you to progress at attempts at tables. The fact is that everybody responds differently to hyperventilating, so the focus is more on progress, which comes from exploring what causes the variances in your body that you are looking for.

 

[efattah]

Ventilation can mean either simple breathing or hyperventilation.

For example, someone may say, 'I changed my ventilation pattern'. This usually means that the breathe-up was changed in some way, and doesn't immediately imply hyperventilation.

 

[tylerz]

Good point. I was thinking of somebody, in the freediving community, specifically saying to ventilate, which would be redundant since we already breathe (ventilate). So, purposefully stating to somebody who is already breathing, "ventilate!", has come to imply increasing one's ventilations in some form (hyperventilate).

In stating that some people use the terms differently in the freediving community, I was referring to the difference of some people using "ventilate" to refer to one form of hyperventilating, while "hyperventilating" is often used to refer to another specific form of hyperventilating (ie. firebreathing). The difference was not meant to imply that some people use ventilate to refer to the literal meaning. So, I should have pointed out that the term ventilating and hyperventilating as used in the freediving community often to refer to hyperventilating in general, but sometimes different forms.

 

[gserghiou]

Hi all.

thanks for your replies...

I will wait till i do that freediving course and get myself a buddy....


What about dry statics....is that a bit safer to do ???

thanks,

George

 

[DeepThought]

Yes, dry statics are considered the safest way to train.

 

[TNdiver]

I personally don't see why the assumption was made that ventilate and hyperventalite always mean the same thing, if the whole thread was read. The question is about tables. Tables give you a time period to breathe, a time period to hold. It should be perfectly logical that the writer of a table would say ventilate to lable the breathing time with out meaning hyperventilate.

Now to the questions...
In the context of a table ventilate means breathe rather than hold your breath. Most of what I've read suggests for breatheups a five second very full inhale, then a ten second exhale. Exhale till comfortable, don't force it because that would make it hard to be relaxed, which is important in diving. I'm no expert on oxygenation, but here goes the simple version. Hyperventilation is more or less breathing quickly enough to cause the tingly feeling you mentioned earlier. If you get that feeling, you need to slow the breathing down. I forget if the feeling comes from excessively high O2, or excessively low CO2, but which ever it is, i know its not safe for diving. Some of the more risky and controversial topics on doing breathups for dives say to breathe very fast, but very deeply till you just barely start to get a hint of that feeling then dive, but i personally don't push it. Some people may recommend different breatheups for doing tables, but I think it would be best to find a good breatheup pattern for diving, and use it for your diving and tables, so that your tables are also practice for your diving breatheup, so that it becomes more second nature. Try searching hyperventilation and breatheup. You should find several good posts on proper breathing patterns.