Extra Vest or Thicker Jacket (a bit urgent)

[Diving Gecko]

Hey guys,
So, I am finally getting a custom fit suit (Oceanos) after having freedived and speared in both 3mm and 5mm scuba suits.
I'll be mostly in tropical waters in upper 20sC temps, but I also like it a bit on the warm side, so I went with 3mm open cell inside for warmth and nylon out for durability.
But I might also dive a bit in S. Korea in about 19C, so I was thinking of ordering a 2-3mm custom vest (open cell in) to wear under the 3mm jacket OR instead of a vest get a 5mm open cell jacket to go with the 3mm pants. Am I right in thinking that my legs and arms should keep warmer than my torso (lots of surface swimming as I am either spearing or photographing) so that I could still make do with the 3mm open cell pants and just add thickness to the top?
I will most likely get the 3mm pants as high waist as I tend to stay in the water for hours and pee all the damn time;-).

This is my first foray into custom suits and I went with Oceanos over Elios because of costs, nothing else. Also, I need to put the order in pretty pronto, so any speedy replies would be gratefully received.

best,
David

 

[Diving Gecko]

Need to order in a day or two, so if anyone has any thoughts on this, now is the time

 

[Mr. X]

Haven't tried a vest but Elios offer it as a simple option upgrade - although their vests seem relatively expensive for such a small, simple a garment but probably much cheaper than a new jacket with hood. Hard to predict what kind of suit you will find most comfortable for warmth and/or most versatile in use, for your body type/preferences/chosen dive areas.

A full 5mm jacket with hood should provide a lot more warmth (and buoyancy - which will necessitate extra lead on your weight belt) than a vest. 3mm pants with 5mm jacket should be ok, less tendency for legs to raise too.

Body should normally be kept warmest (vital organs) but extremities will naturally reduce blood flow first when hyperthermic and so might feel the cold first.


19 degrees sounds pretty warm to me. The length of time you dive might be a factor to consider though. I start to feel cold after 3.5-4 hours, no matter what.


Other options:
If you have high-waist spearo pants, another option might be to upgrade to long-john/father-john style pants, which effectively have a built-in vest - handy for kayaking too.

One of the fuller weight vests (e.g. Omer's Gillet) might provide similar extra warmth to a vest (i.e. a bit but probably not a lot) and give you some new weight position options and camo.

If peeing in your wetsuit bothers you (apparently it is a normal mammal response) consider getting a pissette/bec du cunard built into the pants of your wetsuits (an outlet hose!).

Bear in mind that as you increase the volume of neoprene worn, your buoyancy will increase, which may necessitate extra lead on your dive belt (or in your Gillet).

 

[Diving Gecko]

Hi X,
Thanks for your thoughts.
I tend to stay in the water for quite a while. I'd say rarely less than 3-4 hours, more often a bit longer. But this will be my first MTM proper freediving suit, so I may be underestimating the added warmth over the scuba suits. I couldn't make up my mind, so ordered both an extra vest and the 5mm jacket. I might still kill one of them though. But if I do procede with both, I'll return with an answer on the different configurations. But it'll have to wait until November or so to try the 5mm.
Weights-wise, I should be ok. I think I was wearing 4kgs with my 3mm suit and 6mm with my 5mm suit. I don't think it is extreme.

 

[Mr. X]

You say that cost is an important factor - are you sure, could it be value rather than absolute cost that is more important? Obviously the vest would be the cheap option: cheaper cost to purchase/post and less extra lead required on your dive belt.

I see that you are in Shanghai, could you buy a cheap neoprene vest locally? Most cheaper diving equipment here, including wetsuits, originates in China or Taiwan.

Open-cell/nylon outer for your suit was a good choice IMHO

 

[baiyoke]

I haven't got experience with a custom fit 3mm suit, so haven't answered before, but since few others has, his some input: If you do a lot of activity as mentioned, in upper 20 degree, 3mm will keep you warm. I like it warm, and in a cheaper nylon-inside, no-hood wetsuit 3mm I can easily be warm in 28-29 degree doing relaxed line freediving (in 22 degree not so much, but water is running in and out, so...) Since this is your primary divespot, buy a suit for that temperature and activity level.

About occasionally doing dives in 19 degree: Buy a vest if cold. If really active, I actually doubt you'll need it, if not active it's a different story... BUT I don't have experience with that kind of suit in that temp. You could also put a cheap shorty on top if cold (but won't look "cool" )

About a 5 mm jacket:
Pro: Will definately keep you warm, so about that you'll be on the safe side...
Con: Will probably be a little too warm for 29 degree water, especially if active, allthough you can allways just put water in it.
The added weight you need to compensate for buoyancy, perhaps only a kg for 2mm added on jacket. This is not a big problem if you are not doing competition freediving.

Some people dive in considerately colder water in 5mm, so I'd expect 3mm to be fine in the 19-29 degree range... especially if active...

The above is input, but hopefully someone with a two piece 3mm suit can comment also...

 

[Diving Gecko]

I opted for high waist as I pee by the mere sight of water. But a pissette of course would take care of that. And the price is the same for high waist and longjohns and I guess I can cut LJs to highwaist later on(?). In reg. to the cost, I think it is a bit of both, but mostly value - I don't mind spending a bit more if I feel like it will help solve the problem.
Yup, I am in Shanghai and all this reading up on open cell and manufacturers and what not already got me thinking that I should make my own suit. Even the blind stitch sewing machines are affordable, but that's a project/challenge for when I have time and money on my hands (which is not really now, haha).
I placed the order but still waiting for payment instructions, so there would be time to make a few changes. But no matter what I do, I think I'll be very happy with the open cell and MTM fit.

 

[baiyoke]

Oh, now I see you want either a vest OR a 5mm jacket instead...

 

[Diving Gecko]

baiyoke,
Thanks for weighing in as well. You have a good point about being active. In the colder waters of Korea, I'll either be spearing or chasing Sea Women with my camera, so def active. Maybe the vest and 3mm top is enough... But now I am losing track of all the thoughts and pros and cons I identified in the past few days, haha... I guess the main question was whether a vest with a 3mm top would keep me almost as warm or warm enough as a 5mm top without vest. But it's a tricky question since we all perceive cold differently. I'll think it over with your guys input one last time and see if I'll change to eg. 3mm top, 3mm longjohns and a vest.
But I am also thinking of bringing the 5mm top back home to Denmark on my trips there. So, still torn, haha. At least I am not growing any longer, so I'll still fit the 5mm in years to come. Even if it only sees sporadic use.
But this brings me to another question - I am actually headed home to CPH tonite and will stay a few weeks. Do you dive a lot around CPH? I have never speared in DK, but I am bringing my gear and would love to head out with locals.

(Jeg er dansk i øvrigt, kan sikkert låne bil og kommer nok mest til at være hos noget familie i Hareskoven, hvis det kunne funke?)

 

[baiyoke]

Sender lige en PM

 

[Diving Gecko]

Cool, tak!

 

[Diving Gecko]

Oops, I guess I let my thoughts run away with me Baiyoke - I don't even know if you spear, which was what my CPH questions were about... haha.
But I just saw that you took your courses with the lovely Monica. So did I, but I have not had enough chances to practice that intensely - but I just learned of a 15 deep pool close to Shanghai, so will get going soon! I could do with some EQ practice though as I have issues with one ear (sometimes). Anyways, more on the PM.

 

[Mr. X]

I've never worn a scuba suit but the open-cell spear suits with hoods are much, much warmer than the common 2-4mm cheap beach/surfing wetsuits/shortie wetsuits sold here. The hood itself makes a significant difference. With the 5mm hooded jacket, I doubt if you will need the vest too. Although after several years (4-6 years? if you look after it) they start to loose "loft". The vest is a nice option though, versatile. Might be handy with your 3mm suit or if you do some colder, winter diving.

BTW you can get too hot in a wetsuit, as well as too cold.

 

[Mr. X]

I opted for high waist as I pee by the mere sight of water. But a pissette of course would take care of that. And the price is the same for high waist and longjohns and I guess I can cut LJs to highwaist later on(?). In reg. to the cost, I think it is a bit of both, but mostly value - I don't mind spending a bit more if I feel like it will help solve the problem.
Yup, I am in Shanghai and all this reading up on open cell and manufacturers and what not already got me thinking that I should make my own suit. Even the blind stitch sewing machines are affordable, but that's a project/challenge for when I have time and money on my hands (which is not really now, haha).
I placed the order but still waiting for payment instructions, so there would be time to make a few changes. But no matter what I do, I think I'll be very happy with the open cell and MTM fit.

I wouldn't try cutting down a Long John wetsuit - unless you don't mind junking the top bit. BTW I believe it's the glue rather than the stitching that really holds a wetsuit together.

Yes, making one might be practical, the Elios suits are excellent yet have very few pieces (I know a pattern cutter & she thought they should use more pieces to get a good fit - but I guess open-cell neoprene stretch is pretty forgiving). Do you ever get to Hong Kong? They reputedly have some impressive tailoring services, quick (order in the morning, delivered in the afternoon!) and cheap too - at least they used to be. I don't know if they do wetsuits but if the price is right, I expect they'd give it a bash

Doesn't Shanghai have such places? Or did communism stamp that out?